- Dillon Rosenblatt, CEO and Co-Founder of Autograph
- Roxy Fata, Chief Operating Officer of Infinite Objects

Dillon (00:11):
The collecting experience is meant to be digital.

James (00:16):
This is CES Tech Talk. I'm James Kotecki. The most influential tech event in the world is back in Las Vegas, January 5th through 8th. And we are here to preview CES 2022. Today, we're talking to two companies building the future of non-fungible tokens, better known as NFTs. First, NFTs and the future of fandom. Let me throw some names at you. Tiger Woods, Naomi Osaka, Derek Jeter, Wayne Gretsky, Tony Hawk, Simone Biles, and Gronk himself Rob Gronkowski. All of them are featured athletic icons on Autograph, the sports forward NFT company, co-founded by Tom Brady supporting that star power is game changing technology and 20 something CEO and co-founder Dillon Rosenblatt. Dillon. Welcome to the show. And before we talk about how NFTs change everything, what's your simple definition of an NFT.

Dillon (01:18):
Yeah. First, thank you for having me. Really excited to be here and really looking forward to CES. My simple definition is it's a digital asset that can now have a verified owner. It's a more technical definition, but the way that I explain it is that a piece of digital art can now have value and now be owned because of the blockchain technology and the tracking. So it's the medium for digital ownership to become possible and widely adopted

James (01:43):
Dillon. It seems like the term NFTs really blew up in the popular consciousness, maybe less than 12 months ago. How often are you actually having to define that term now? And is that changing?

Dillon (01:55):
What's funny is that when I started these conversations with some of the top people in the entertainment, sports, and music industries, I was starting my pitch deck with a slide that said, what is an NFT and walking them through my simple definition of a digital asset that can now have a verified owner. And now I really don't explain it to anybody in the industry. And we have these conversations, whether it's an agent, or a studio, whoever we're speaking with, they have some understanding. But what I find interesting is that people in some of my personal circles and just around town that might not have a business that could benefit from NFTs might know it less. So I think to the industry, it's now very familiar and people in the mass market and that are looking to get into the space are just starting to really understand it.

James (02:41):
So the company's Autograph describe the customer experience. Somebody goes to your website, what can they do? What can they buy? What is it?

Dillon (02:49):
The experience right now for our sports related content, it's worth noting that we're going to be launching NFTs in both the sports vertical, as well as music and entertainment. We announced that the weekend and Sam Bankman Fried joined our board, which is really exciting for the same way that Tom and these incredible athletes led us into the sports world. The weekends can be that guide for music. And we also have a deal for, with Lionsgate and drop saw on Halloween for all of their movie and film content. So, the experience right now that you've seen is that Autograph partnered with DraftKings and we're selling our NFTs through DraftKings marketplace. And we work closely with their team to provide a really cool collecting experience for our users. So we're coming out with a new update.

Dillon (03:32):
Now that's going to launch the Autograph collector score, launch leaderboards on Autograph and have a gallery where these collectibles and collectors are going to be celebrated for both the work that they do and the things that they collect. So right now you'd go on to DraftKings marketplace, have a really accessible experience, which is one of the goals of Autograph. Let's make this easy enough for that mass market I referred to, to come in, you'll pay in a credit card and buy an NFT and then be able to come view it on Autograph, share your collection and become one of the top collectors to these icons, which is our gateway to lead you into incredible experiences and interaction.

James (04:08):
And the assets, the digital assets that people are buying. Are they literally autographs, like explain a little bit more about what the specific NFT asset is?

Dillon (04:17):
Sure they're signed and unsigned autographs, this phase and this product in a way are kind of like our baseball cards. That was the first step is let's create something that's simple and that everyone can understand and dive in and people have loved collecting for such a long time that we thought it was worth making something that looks like very familiar. So that preseason pass comes both signed and unsigned. And for each of the partners that we launched, Tom Brady, Tiger Woods, Wayne Gretzky, Derek Jeters, Simone Biles, Naomi Osaka and so on all these incredible partners, they signed individually 287 NFTs each. And what we do is, we actually send them an iPad to their house with an autograph app loaded up and they have to sign each and every one individually, it can take them hours when they take their time on these signatures. Like I remember being on the Zoom with tiger and he spent the time on each and every one making them a little unique and different.

Dillon (05:11):
They said it was a seamless experience that we created, but it's a real, authentic digital signature. And I think it's such an amazing use of the blockchain that it can be verified as an NFT.

James (05:22):
It strikes me as interesting that for a while, celebrities have said, look, nobody wants autographs anymore. I'm talking about physical, tangible autographs. People just want to get selfies. And it sounds like what you're doing is almost reversing that. In that now people actually might seek out autographs more because they can have this NFT component to it.

Dillon (05:40):
Right. I mean, I worked at cameo beforehand that I saw and I heard the discourse about, that's not an autograph anymore. It's now Cameo the new selfie, the new quick interaction, the new signature from somebody. But yeah, based on the blockchain, we're kind of bringing it back these signatures in a way that I think really, really makes sense in this world. And we've seen the response on the actual signed NFTs. It's been overwhelmingly positive. People are really, really appreciating and liking that offering.

James (06:07):
So the way you're framing, this is kind of like those passes autographed or not are kind of like a gateway to the additional world of things that you could collect. And you said you wanted to make something that was familiar to people as they were entering this world. But when we're talking NFTs, I mean, you could go anywhere with this. You could create digital assets really that are of anything. So what are some of the things on your roadmap or even just that you're dreaming about for things that people might be able to collect in the future?

Dillon (06:31):
The things that I see being really exciting for collectors coming up, I think that the space just keeps changing and the NFTs get more and more innovative things that were really exciting and cool two months ago now have been tried and done in a lot of different ways. So it's all about pushing the boundaries and moving things forward. What I'm really excited about are NFTs that evolve and that can change over time. And in our case, let's just say it's with an athlete, it can change over the course of their career. I don't want to give away any ideas. People have tried it, but let's just say on a super bowl, when it was built into the smart contract that the NFT changed or adjusted, and the holder got something new dropped into their wallet or a new version of the old one, and people are coming up with incredible projects that are pushing the boundaries of what NFTs were even six months ago.

Dillon (07:17):
I think people are used to working now in the tech industry that changes so quickly and you need to be able to adjust and adapt and move on the fly that when people see a new interesting idea or opportunity for innovation, they're diving in, in the NFT space. So, I haven't seen things move. I didn't expect things to have moved this quickly and they really are. And I think that the latest trend that I hear about left and right, and I'm looking into myself is this Metaverse. And I think Facebook changing their name to Meta who is a huge validator and a huge just signal to the market that this is something that one of the biggest companies in the world is getting into. So that's going to be, I think, disruptive for this space long term when this digital asset that you can actually own, has a digitally native place to live.

James (08:02):
We're now hearing about NFTs that could actually be tied to physical items in the real world, like the home could be purchased using a smart contract with an NFT. Do you see physical items also being part of your roadmap long term that things might be exchanged with NFTs?

Dillon (08:18):
Right now, the team hasn't looked into selling physical items with NFT smart contracts, but broadly as a market, I could definitely see it being adopted. I mean, when these rules are written into the smart contract, it's Ironclad set and stone and publicly verifiable. So I think it is going to be a really cool technology and transparently, we haven't thought about launching physical goods with a smart contract. What we have done is, thought about NFTs that could enable physical experiences and goods. And you'll definitely see that from us moving forward. And I think that's part of what makes our offering unique is, I'm sure we'll get into this a bit later, but the talent actually are the leads here. We leave the majority of the revenue in their hands. We give them a hand in the creative. We like to think everything is co-authored and co-produced with them.

Dillon (09:05):
So the experiences that they're going to provide to their collectors and holders are up to them and their roadmap, whether it's a series of Zooms or it's an event that they're closely tied to, they invite everyone to, or if it's 10 tickets to a hockey game or a baseball game, we're really going to let them reward this community we build. And that's where I think it gets exciting is that we're building kind of this with all these stars and talent, a community of different communities of these audiences that are excited to collect. And then in turn, want this collecting experience to get them one step closer to the icon in a way that couldn't have happened before and would need something like the blockchain to be publicly verifiable and tracked and to be the perfect medium, to really power this movement.

James (09:50):
The star power that you have on your roster is extremely impressive. Are you in kind of a land grab with others in this space to sign up talent as quickly as possible, because everyone's thinking about this and in that case, what are some of the advantages that you bring to athletes that competitors might not?

Dillon (10:07):
We have definitely, every time, we start an NFT conversation, and if someone's not familiar with Autograph and the work we do, the first reaction is we've gotten 60 of these offers this week. What makes you guys different? How do you do it better? And I have to say that we've built such an incredible team of people at Autograph that come from the world of tech and crypto and come from the world of entertainment, that we understand how to protect brands and take care of people. And having Tom as the co-founder of the company and actively involved, the way we think about it is that we're going to protect Tom's brand and make sure everything that we drop and release is accessible for his audience priced accessibly, not to gouge anybody. And at the end of the day, turns into a really cool experience. So we've used that validation and the other talent to say, look at these amazing people, talk to them and hear the experience that they've had.

Dillon (10:56):
And then once they have done that and checked kind of how the other partners have enjoyed working with us, the team and the success they've seen from their offering, it's been pretty easy to stand out from the pack. And even if we go from a conversation of a hundred to the conversation of a couple competitors, it's still been really cool to see. And so I just, that's give a huge congratulations to the whole team for making that possible.

James (11:18):
You talked about the Metaverse and where this is all going. If we imagine a future of Metaverse 10 years, 15 years from now, that's kind of like the world of ready player one, where you can not only see and hear things in perfect fidelity and VR, but you can actually feel things and maybe, taste things have almost completely, realistic experiences in the Metaverse and NFTs are a big part of the way that those assets are changing hands inside the Metaverse. Do you think it ultimately becomes something for people where the term NFT and the technology underneath it kind of fades away in the public consciousness? And it's as simple as just trading goods, now that we do in the physical world.

Dillon (12:01):
In that world that you described, I think it absolutely would be. I think the term NFT would be synonymous with, I mean, you're right. You would just call it a digital good at that point, something I'm purchasing. And I think the more the space evolves, the more that this complexity is being abstracted away from the time I got into the space and used to connect my meta mask wallet and buy in a variety of marketplaces, it's already gotten much simpler, companies like MoonPay are coming out with the ability to take, I mean, make it easier to take credit cards on the platform and deposit fiat more easily and swap it into crypto. It's all becoming more and more simple, which is what I think is really cool and what Autograph is doing in a lot of ways. It's providing that accessible experience to help grow this market and show people that it doesn't have to be this scary thing.

Dillon (12:45):
It's just an incredible new opportunity to purchase and take advantage of all the obvious amazing things that come along with NFTs. Headed back to what you were saying about the Metaverse. No, I do think it's going to be synonymous and as easy as purchasing and everyday good. And I think it's going to come down to, I think that nobody knows in 15 years how powerful this is really going to be. And if it's going to be a subset of the population engaging actively within the Metaverse or it's going to be everybody, but I know either way that this is something that's coming and that the way I look at it and always have is that there's a community that enjoys Minecraft, that enjoys Roblox, that enjoys gaming and enjoys Fortnite and all of these different versions of a Metaverse that I would 100% believe are going to adopt and spend a ton of their time and hold value in their life of being a part of the Metaverse in that future movement.

James (13:38):
Let's talk now about the immediate future. What are you planning for CES 2022 in Las Vegas, in person. You're a digital collectible company, but you're going to be there physically. We're really excited.

Dillon (13:49):
Yeah. What we're going to do is, we're going to build out a physical exhibit that showcases all of the incredible things that we do digitally. There's already a movement where people are hanging these pieces of art on their walls, celebrating them in Times Square and Billboards. We want to be able to bring this power of digital to a physical experience and let people that come to our booth, both learn about NFTs, how they can be accessible, and then actually be able to maybe even buy or take something home with them from just being at the conference. So being able to be at the most influential tech conference in the world as a company like Autograph focused on a digitally data collecting experience is going to be cool. And I think the team's goal is to mix the physical and digital in a way that people can remember. So really excited for that and really excited to be a part of it.

James (14:36):
You mentioned that you're expanding out beyond the world of sports. You've got to deal with Lionsgate. Now, tell us a little bit more about that.

Dillon (14:42):
Lionsgate has been one of the partners from the start that I've been the most excited about. The reason behind it is that everything lives on a screen in the movie world. And of course there are physical activations, but I think that the collecting experience is meant to be digital. So what we've done so far is we dropped, saw on Halloween with what I believe are the most terrifying NFTs ever released. You can find them on DraftKings marketplace now, but five traps, five schematics, a key for game of occasion and a trap that was dropped into wallets and is now being listed on open sea. So, a larger point of that is we create a collecting game out of a movie and you're going to see us do the same thing for franchises like Mad Men, like John Wick and some of their top properties. And we work actively with both the internal teams at the studios at Lionsgate and then the actual producers to get their creative input and to get their direction. And I think to create something that's going to add to the experience of actually viewing and enjoying the films.

James (15:42):
I really liked what you just said. Collecting is meant to be digital. For the longest time there was no digital option. Collecting was all about physical things, but of course people collect different things, not because of necessarily what the physical object is in its raw form, but because of the concept, the story that they have in their mind about what that object means to them personally, that's why one person's collectible might be another person's trash. And if we're talking about collections as going into the all digital space, that makes a lot of sense because it much more cerebral, but it also maybe better represents the idea that collecting is about mental architectures and storytelling concepts.

Dillon (16:20):
I totally agree. And I think it's just the fact that these things, while you can't touch and feel them per se, or at least not yet till we get to the Metaverse, that we discussed. But what I would say is that it's so much more versatile and the ability to display your collection and share it with others. Have it be a part of your digital presence is where it should be. I'm a physical collector, myself and most of my peers and my friends, haven't seen my physical card collection unless I took a picture and posted it. But if it could live next to my other social links and just be a part of the presence that people can interact with in a few clicks, I think it's pretty incredible. And I do think it really is the future of collecting. And that's really what Autograph is trying to do is to usher in the new air of collecting, make it simple and use all of the benefits of collecting digital, to drive more people and awareness into this space and provide an awesome experience for our customer.

James (17:14):
We are really excited to see you there, Dillon Rosenblatt, thanks so much for joining us today.

Dillon (17:19):
Thank you for having me.

James (17:24):
Autograph CEO and co-founder Dillon Rosenblatt just mentioned NFTs that hang on the wall and that's close to what my next guest is focused on. Infinite objects makes printed videos. Those are framed photos that move like gifts or if you prefer pictures from Harry Potter, these are sleek, super high res and seem somehow magical. But the real magic may be that the videos they print can also be NFTs. Let's unpack what this means with Infinite Objects, COO Roxy Fata. Roxy. Do you get that Harry Potter comparison a lot?

Roxy (18:01):
We do, and we love hearing it. We can't get enough.

James (18:05):
So before we get into the NFT angle, just explain a little bit more about what this is. This is not a visual medium, obviously. So please explain to people what they're actually looking at when they see one of these things in real life.

Roxy (18:19):
Absolutely. So, we are first to market and the only permanently treated video display. Our signature cues is an LCD screen encased in acrylic. So it's very recognizable as ours and it plays one video on loop. The Infinite Object, we call it a video print. Has no button, switches, or any types of apps or connectivity. It comes out of the box and turns on in your hands. And it's meant to be put in a spot and plugged in and be treated in a way you would a printed photograph or an art print. And so bringing physicality to video for the first time and in many ways doing the same things that NFTs are doing in the digital world with video, in the physical world is really what we are all about

James (19:17):
Are there sounds with these video loops as well?

Roxy (19:20):
That's a great question. There are intentionally, no sounds. One, because they're always meant to be on and we don't want to drive anyone crazy. And two, because we really love the simplicity of the design. Adding sound would add a button. It would add a lot of gadgetry and we really want to focus on the content and not on the technology.

James (19:42):
So, I mean, putting digital picture frames up in people's houses, TVs, obviously like flat screens. These have been around for a long, long time. It seems like the innovation here from just the physical perspective is actually what you've taken away from these objects rather than what you've added.

Roxy (19:58):
Absolutely. There are many beautiful TVs and different types of digital screens out there right now. And they have a lot of high tech in them. And I think stripping it down when our founder and CEO, Joseph Saavedra was developing the product. I think that, something top of mind was always, how can we make it less of a gadget? How can we take away all of those cues, those visual cues that would make someone tap the screen or try to zoom in and out like you would on a tablet. And so we've really focused on making sure that the design lends itself to elevating the content and not having leading people to believe at some sort of iPad.

James (20:47):
And do you have best practices, recommendations for people about what kind of video loops they should choose for this sort of thing.

Roxy (20:57):
We've seen so much work. And I think they're longer form videos, we can technically do up to 24 hours of a loop. We've had the longest one so far is 15 hours. So we'd like to extend a challenge to anyone who wants surrender a 24-hour loop. So those are fun because you can see different moments every time you pass by. But we've also worked with incredibly talented artists who have made shorter loops that are just very satisfying to look at and very seamless and calming at times. And so I think there are a lot of ways to execute a beautiful loop on the Infinite Objects.

James (21:38):
So when you go to the Infinite Objects website, this kind of consumer facing printer videos angle seems to be the primary one from the homepage, but then there's a button that talks about printing NFTs. So explain what that actually means in this context.

Roxy (21:55):
Absolutely. So I think that to take a step back and the general concept of NFTs, we will always be a physical twin, a representation of the NFT. So, we always want to be clear that the NFT will always live on chain and the infinite objects that displays an NFT is really to help display it and enjoy it and to experience the visuals. So right now, as you said, we have some limited edition art from a lot of amazing artists around the world they're not actually connected to NFTs on our site, as well as the creator tool that allows you to go on and upload your personal moments from your phone or your computer. But you can also see that the NFT section of our site is slowly building. We currently have an artist registry lab. We actually were able to work with people in December of last year, which kind of opened the flood gates for a lot of things NFT and bringing that into the real world. And from that moment, we had a lot of people going on and using our creator tool to upload NFTs, video NFTs.

James (23:12):
People, as you mentioned, the artists that probably put NFTs on the map for a lot of folks, when one of his creations I think sold, what was it at? Christie's at auction for multimillions of dollars.

Roxy (23:23):
Yes. 69 million. So, I think to kind of talk about that a bit more, I think he really realized that he had established this huge fan base with his art and that including something that was physical for people to own was very important. And so we've seen this be proven true time and time again, we've worked with a lot of amazing artists in this space and we've provided the physical aspect of the video print with their drops of the NFTs so that the collectors could receive something in the mail as well as on chain. And so people have loved that. And for us, it's really working with artists as part of our DNA. It's how we brought up the product. It's a lot of concepts around allowing artists to monetize and creating new revenue streams for them is really part of our DNA.

Roxy (24:19):
And so, when we saw this influx of people trying to print different video NFTs, we really had to map back to what our values were and say, how can we get collectors their works in an infinite objects while still giving artists a say with their IP. And so one of the things that is actually live on our site right now is our artist registry. And that allows artists to go into our site and opt in or out of allowing us to print video prints of their video, NFT works and they can set the price and they can kind of create different types of, they can make different decisions based on how many units people can order, if they can get multiples, if there's just one, what the price point will be. And so that has kind of been a longer road, but something that is really important to us and that we've gotten a lot of great feedback on. And by the end of this year, we will be introducing a way for collectors to authenticate their ownership and through that make video prints in their NFTs.

James (25:35):
So to summarize, as people listening to this podcast are going to be at different levels of sophistication about NFTs, but to summarize the printed videos that you are putting into frames that is not the NFT itself, that is a physical representation of the NFT that lives on the blockchain connected to the internet. It sounds like the actual Infinite Object itself is not even necessarily connected to the internet. Is that right?

Roxy (25:59):
That is correct. Now the ones that represent NFTs will have QR codes that will map back to information regarding that NFT, but a very nice way of thinking about it is let's say you go to the louvre and you take a picture of the Mona Lisa and you print that picture out. That is how we want to think about what our product is providing to the asset that we'll always be on chain.

James (26:25):
And it sounds like the artists are given a lot of flexibility to decide maybe only the person who has the actual NFT can print this and have this in their home. Maybe there can be a hundred pictures of this that that person can give to their friends that other people could buy, but only one of them is actually tied to the actual underlying NFT itself. Is that right?

Roxy (26:43):
Yes. Currently the first iteration of our artist registry, the collector will have to prove that they own that NFT to print it, but there's a lot of iterations that will happen. And so we're really excited to continuously get feedback from the community and continue to develop out these tools to make sure that these beautiful works are getting the respect they deserve.

James (27:06):
How do you think generally about the physical manifestation of something so abstract, like an NFT, I mean, do you think maybe you could put an NFT represented by other kinds of artistic mediums? Like, could you put a sculpture for example representing an NFT and what that would look like?

Roxy (27:26):
Absolutely. And I think that including something physical is a great way of making the concept of the NFT much more understandable. I think that there are a lot of technicalities associated with what NFTs are, what the blockchain is. And so to kind of bring down the barriers of entry into a space, that's a little bit nuanced with something that people very much understand. They understand the value of having something physical, that they can hold, that they can display, that they can feel like they own. I think that it helps people get closer to understanding NFTs and all of the possible applications they have in different sectors of their lives.

James (28:15):
It sounded like from what you were saying earlier, reading between the lines that you started this business or this business started with the idea of printing videos and framing them and making that beautiful and seamless process. And then the NFT thing came later as you saw kind of consumer demand there. Is that true? Cause I think that would be an interesting use case in understanding how kind of NFTs and the blockchain generally are starting to kind of wash over and cross over into other places that weren't even necessarily starting off looking for those.

Roxy (28:45):
Yeah. I have to admit that I have been learning a lot in the last few years about NFTs and Mr. Miyagi has been Joe, our founder and CEO, and he has been in the space for quite some time. So from the very beginning, he would say to me, this is the perfect application for NFTs. And it was pretty early on in terms of, we spoke to actually all of the NFT marketplaces at that time. They were slowly gaining momentum. We were new. And so it's been really lovely to be in the right place at the right time. But I have to say, not from my perspective necessarily at first, but it was something that Joe always was kind of waiting for. And it's the perfect marriage and the perfect timing.

James (29:39):
It seems like from the way I read the website that you're building primarily a consumer facing brand at this point, have you thought about applications for this technology to advertisers or others on the business side?

Roxy (29:51):
Yeah, absolutely. We actually do a lot of B2B. We love seeing the creative ways that people have used our product, whether it be for press kits or end of year giftings. There are so many companies that spend so much money on creating video content and there's no real way of closing the loop. It goes on social for a bit. It goes on a television screen and a store window. And so we're seeing, we're speak to so many people that are sitting on all this beautiful video content and watching the creative ways they've brought this to life. We also have this ability to customize the units. I described the QR code for NFTs, but also we've had the units be able to unlock things, act as some sort of ticket, act as an invitation. So we can't wait to kind of, there's so many parts of our business and we've really tried to phase it out in a manageable way, but we're really excited.

Roxy (30:55):
We think of the product as paper for video. And so right now we are really doubling down on the technology associated with NFTs, but everything that we're building up will inform everything else on our roadmap as well, because maybe it's not an NFT, but maybe you have a favorite YouTube channel. And that person isn't huge and making a lot of money on ads, but you still want to buy the videos they've created. Why not find a way of having a button and says buy this video where the creator can get compensated and the fan can enjoy the video.

James (31:32):
So speaking of enjoying your creations, we are looking forward to enjoying what you have in store for us at CES 2022. What are people going to see when they swing by Infinite Objects?

Roxy (31:42):
Well, the C space is really devoted to NFTs. And as you were mentioning, Autograph, I think will be one of our neighbors in this space. We're really excited to be amongst our peers. We know so many marketplaces and we've had a pleasure of working with a lot of people in that space. And so I think that just being able to be there and show a different way of imagining NFTs, a different way of experiencing them, I think will be really fun. I think it'll be, this is the first year that NFTs kind of have a space and people are curious. And I think a lot out of these events, just being able to speak to people and hear what their questions are and see the delight in their faces when they see that this type of product exists. And it's a solution for a lot of different things across the board.

James (32:39):
Are people going to be able to go to your booth and take a selfie and, and print that right there on the spot?

Roxy (32:44):
Well, they might be able to, we haven't done, we've talked a lot about an event where we can do that right on the spot. So we're still figuring out what the final verdict is in terms of activations. But, we would love to do that. Another exciting thing that is happening soon. And I guess January is coming soon too, is that we are going to have a dapper, an integration with flow and dapper for top shots. So I think that we will have a lot of top shots stuff going on at the booth. There's so many to different audiences and interests we can accommodate. And so we're really excited to finalize exactly how we're going to make those different offerings shine.

James (33:30):
Well, thank you so much for joining us Roxy and we will see you at CES 2022.

Roxy (33:35):
Thank you, James. Excited to see you there.

James (33:38):
Well, that's our show for now, but there's always more tech to talk about. Subscribe to this podcast. So you don't miss a moment and get more CES at ces.tech. That's ces.tech. Our show today is produced by Tina Anthony and Kirsten Isaac. Recorded by Andrew Lynn and edited by Third Spoon. I'm James Kotecki talking tech on CES Tech Talk.