Tyler Suiters  0:11 

Hey everyone, Tyler Suiters with the consumer Technology Association. We are the owners and producers of CES, it is the biggest it is the most influential tech event on the planet.

Today we're talking about resilience. Now, this is a term you hear in the news with some frequency, often about the people who survive and recover from natural disasters, right? Well, not just people, but places can do the same thing through resilience. There is now technology that can support and strengthen the resilience of c ritical infrastructure and also help the ability for cities for towns for municipalities to bounce back operationally after a crisis or in some cases, even during a crisis.

Now you know that CES supports smart cities, exhibitors programming, conversation, innovation. And those cities are about data enabled decisions to solve public problems. Think about vehicles like the IoT, and 5g and of course, self driving cars. Well, resilience is similar. And we're showcasing it very close to Smart Cities at CES there in Las Vegas. Well, this is technology that will help with disaster preparedness, as well as response, if thumbnail about resilience here, its innovation that keeps the world healthy, safe, warm, powered, fed, and secure.

So today, we're talking to one of the world's leading organizations of independent audit tax and advisory firms. So that's a pretty good indication of just how important resilience is to corporate America. But first, a conversation with a successful entrepreneur and VC investor who also happens to have a Doctor of Science, and he is well versed in working with tech projects with fortune 500 companies and resilience he says very much has their attention right now as well.

Carmichael Roberts is joining us from Boston right now amid his busy schedule. Carmichael. Good to talk to you again. 

Carmichael Roberts  2:22 

Great to talk to you as well, Tyler.

Tyler Suiters  2:23 

Yeah, it's been a while, it was at CES, I believe while watching an NFL playoff game after after the show floor closed down.

Carmichael Roberts  2:31 

Exactly, the Seahawks.

Tyler Suiters  2:35 

If you can remember if they won or lost here, you're better than I am. So resilience, hard to define in some senses a bit of you know it when you see it. What's your definition? Because I know it's been used as as something of a of a guide for many who are associated with the resilient sector in technology.

Carmichael Roberts  2:55 

Yeah, I love how you said that you know when you see it, but it's literally the ability to withstand any kind of natural or man-made circumstance without having your world turned upside down. I mean, you know, it would be my, the more common sort of sort of a common term definition that I would give to it.

And you think about you think about whether it's a hurricane or whether or not is an earthquake, whether it's just impacts on climate change, and fortunately, in the we live in today, whether someone has deliberately decided to attack something, whether it's a cyber attack, or worse. You know, in in that case, what happens to the, your everyday life based on your needs? Do they get significantly disrupted, and if so how long or did you get moderately disrupted? And how quickly do you bounce back? And these, you know, the ability to bounce back and then have it the de minimisism practice resilience.

Tyler Suiters  4:14 

So we're seeing this conversation unfold in three parts generally. And the common labels seem to be preparedness, responsiveness and recovery. You cited those. I almost think of them Carmichael as past, present and future when you're dealing with a disaster of some sort. Can you walk us through each of those, those three stages?

Carmichael Roberts  4:37 

Oh, yeah, sure. A lot. I like how you shape that path. You know, past, present and future. So if we take a look at let's take a look at the present for a second, you know, because it kind of informs the past. What you want to do is think about what you've learned in history that's happened that you know is going to repeat itself. You don't know what it's going to happen to you, but it could. What you want to do is think about what could allow you to go to sleep at night, and not worry so much about it.

So the past and the present are really tightly tied together when you think about it. And the good news is, there aren't that many unique ways, these days of, of disasters or disruptions. Their derivatives and slight changes, but history has had enough catastrophes. If you will, that they inform you. So you can therefore think about in the day, what you want to solve for, based on what the past has, taught us as a  being and, and then where we are a little bit last to be candid with you is on the recoveries side of things. I would say, there aren't a lot of good examples for recovery.

I mean, most of the time, it's a crisis. Most of the time, it's a bit chaotic and reactive. So it ends up in the news, and that's why it lasts so long. So when you think about those three steps, the first, the second, a tie tightly together, the third one, I separate, and say that there's a lot of opportunities so that it doesn't sound dire. I look at it the other direction, I say there's a tremendous amount of opportunity to deal with recovery. And tie the second piece, which is dealing with the present when it's happening into part of that because that's the first step in recovery is to be prepared to minimize the damage.

Tyler Suiters  6:50 

Right. So you're looking at what is essentially an international issue and whether you call it climate change or global warming. However you term it that also an international issue, which means it's especially challenging to get consensus right whether to agree on something much less to act on something. So how do you speak to the international audience Carmichael?

CES is a great opportunity right with policymakers and government leaders from around the world. What is the common language you're using the pitch to them, whether they're, you know, in an island nation or coastal city that's worried about flooding or somewhere closer to inland equator where they are worried about prolonged droughts or wildfires, etc.

Carmichael Roberts  7:43 

Well, the the good news as it relates to this topic of how do you reach out to folks people on a global basis is that, you know, one commonality is I don't care how wealthy nation you are. How poor a nation you are. I don't care about whatever your beliefs are, or societal, culture, norms and art. Everyone wants their people and their nation to suffer less, not more.

And so the first thing that's common, you know, across the globe, is just the appeal to human nature of wanting the best for their own and wanting to protect their own. That's a common, that's a common theme. Now, I'm going to go to the other side for you what I really think about when you think about when I look at different parts of the the world, I think you get a case by case basis where depending on the location and the characteristics of that location, you want to be careful not to offer the advice that one solution size fits all. Because sometimes there's an opportunity to do something quite different. In a particular location versus another location.

So the first thing you want to do to go back to my first point is appeal to the need, which I think it's fairly easy to appeal to. then the next thing you want to do is not suggested there's a there's a panacea, you know, cure that fits all. Which should force people to look at their situations what they're more vulnerable to, or not. And what, where there are common links in different parts of the globe, and get them to stop talking about that. If we're need be, be prepared to even customized solutions for your area.

Then the last thing I would like to say on this topic. That's also important is sometimes you can look at one country that has a particular issue that's common with another country will think that the best way to solve that issue is to look at look at the countries that are the first movers to be going to solve it. And sometimes that's right. And sometimes that's wrong. So in other words, let me be more specific over the philosophical. Once once upon a time the United States didn't have a grid. And it was quite, you know, important in brilliant that we created a grid because it actually allowed for a greater amount of stability. Because you took advantage of scale and norms, and began to serve it. If you look at where we are today in terms of technology and innovation, as compared to when our grid was originally created for the United States. We're so far beyond that now, that the idea that you want to take what we've done in the United States is a grid and say that should be the norm for the globe. That does not make sense.

I mean, there's opportunities and other states and nations to take the good of what we've done in the US as it relates to the grid, but also discard the things that we wish we could change. Since you're starting from almost like ground zero, and from scratch, build something that actually is quite different that maybe one day we can learn from and, and adjust our own grid. That's the other part that you know that the other part of the discussion that you want to reach on the international and global is, is this whole idea that innovation can come about even when you don't have anything. In fact, a lot of times that's the best, the clean sheet of paper, the whiteboard, the canvas is the best thing to paint.

Tyler Suiters  11:34 

So I'm glad you bring up innovation. You run in some pretty rarefied circles and I'm going to embarrass you not by delving into your bio Carmichael, but let's let's speaking matter of fact, like you are in touch with engage with regularly tech leaders from around the world well-known names. So we just talked about dealing with political and government leaders and getting. The public sector by in, but when it comes to innovators and innovation, and the private sector driving that home, are you talking to about resilience? Who is really thinking about it right now? You know, in the world of technology, and where does the enthusiasm live? Based on what you're hearing from the people, you know, so well?

Carmichael Roberts  12:22 

Well, I hear where there's hope, you know, a lot of times I get the question from people, or are we just too late on certain things? Is it too big of a problem to ever solve? Are we fooling ourselves even try and address it, and who cares? And who really cares? The amazing thing is, you know, as you mentioned, there are some of the most well-known names in business, in the world who care a tremendous amount about it. An example would be, you now I have the pleasure now of being a member of an organization called Breakthrough Energy.

Where this is all public information you can look and see that this organization was originally started by a vision from you know, Bill Gates and his organization. You know, and where he's assembled ... he's, spearheaded and assembled, people like Mr. Gates all around the world, who are known for being business leaders, certainly a lot of people think their wealth, but getting getting beyond that some of these individuals are some of our what I would call some of the greatest, you know, caring humanitarians on the planet. Dispersed, like I said, through the continents, not just countries, but continents, and care tremendously about the fate of the planet.

So when you're looking at that list of people and the government's that are represented. There's a lot of hope, and a lot of goodwill and effort that's going on. That from, very well known people all around the world.

Tyler Suiters  14:17 

Diving a little bit more specifically into the implications, and maybe the better word is applications Carmichael. We've talked about smart cities for some time now at CES, and that includes ingredient technologies, like the IoT, like self driving vehicles, things that drive greater energy efficiency. Like smart lighting, and what have you. Resilience is connected. And it will be through our CES content exhibitors too but it's broader, right? In terms of how we approach it, that we're looking at big scale issues, like communications, cyber security and energy as well.

Carmichael Roberts  15:02 

Right. I'm sitting here as you were talking, I was also thinking about the previous question that you asked me. I answered generally speaking about who's involved in paying attention to the topic? Before I fully answer, maybe I could tie the questions together a little bit. When we talk about resilience. You mentioned these topics now that are really important cyber security, energy, infrastructure and so forth. The key thing there is you, first and foremost want to try and solve if you can for the things in nature that have changed significantly. That create the threat that sits in front of us.

Tyler Suiters  15:48 

So is that in more extreme weather events, for example?

Carmichael Roberts  15:52 

Exactly more extreme weather events. To the extent that you can prepare yourself and prepare the planet to have less of that. The better off you are. But in doing so, you also want to create those systems and those products. If you will. That are less likely to get disrupted if an event occurs. So let me be very specific. I talked about the grid. If you look and think about how could you provide cleaner energy, power and electricity. In ways that decrease the impacts on climate change as compared to contribute to them? That's a goal that the people that I work with the things that I do, we absolutely have. But if you do that and offer a solution that's fragile and vulnerable. Then what is the point, because you end up putting something up in place. That for the moment when all circumstances are smooth and the threat to those systems are really low. And everything is free, fairly benign, in terms of the circumstance. What happens when that changes, right? Yeah.

Tyler Suiters  17:18 

You're not fixing anything? It's, it's a mitigation, right? A temporary.

Carmichael Roberts  17:21 

Exactly, exactly. That's exactly right. So you really want to put something down, that's rugged, robust and resilient. So it's all sort of tied together. You want to do both things. You want to come up with solutions to lower the likelihood of the threat all together and you want those solutions to feel almost as if they're permanent. And have very little vulnerability. Whether it's, due to something that man has a control over or not. That's what's really key and the reason I bring that up is. When I talk about the leaders of business. I use the minute, but some of some of these folks are running companies today. Some of the largest companies in the world.

In fact, I'll say I don't know many people that I've met who are running fortune 200 companies who don't genuinely care about this topic. Even beyond the fact that it's just good business. I mean, literally just care about it, because I'm proud of it. You can see it in them more than that. It's a good message in a newspaper or good message to Wall Street. That they really care about it. They mean, they generally care about it. I can see it in their eyes and their behavior. They care about both lowering the risk, but also protected. Make sure it's robust and vulnerable, if not as vulnerable.

Tyler Suiters  18:50 

Right. So from a corporate sense, and Carmichael, but this might be a little bit ham handed on my part. But is resilience the next corporate chapter after sustainability? Or is that too linear a way to phrase it? Is it more of an evolution?

Carmichael Roberts  19:05 

It's? Well, it may be? It may be neither. OK, so if I take your questions very specifically, do we look at this in a serial manner? That you get this done and the next thing you need to work on is resilience? Now I would not look at it that way. Right? I would say, it's definitely something that you do in parallel is the way I would look at it. Evolution, also sort of suggests that it, little by little it gets added on.

I would say that the very best products, the very best systems are ones that think about solving for x and y at the same time. The X being, I want to make a big difference. Whatever the product is offering at that moment I want it to make a big difference to the individual, into man, into mankind. Under my case I'm talking about the planet. At the same time, I want to make sure that this is something that's rugged and can withstand the the kind of things that could knock it off. So you wouldn't do both things as the why.

Tyler Suiters  20:19 

OK. At the risk of giving you your own direct quote, right back at you, during our conversation Carmichael. One of the ways we described what resilience is and who's exhibiting at CES in this space, is technologies that in the face of adversity are keeping the world healthy, safe, warm, powered, fed and secure.

To the extent that echoes closely what you said before in speaking engagements and presentations. Where did those fall in terms of priority? Or is it all on an even scale for you? Especially post-disaster, that future tense we were talking about around resilience?

Carmichael Roberts  21:05 

Well first of all, you're right. It made me smile when I heard you say that. Because I say exactly those lines and I'm hoping that it does stick. To hear you say it back Tyler means a lot to me. They're all equivalent in my mind. Those are things that are needs. Any one of those things if they're removed. The level of disruption to everyday life is considerable. In fact, you can't even think. If you're hungry, you can't think. If you're unhealthy say figuratively, you can't sing. If you're cold, you don't have shelter and your family's at risk. You can't really think. These sorts of healthy, fed, safe, warm, secure, powered type stuff. I sort of lumped into, that they're all important because they're required to live.

Tyler Suiters  22:13 

I wanted to say to be a bit more specific about that list Carmichael and I think this falls under healthy, although secure and safe may apply as well. But, you have a specific interest in a company called Zero Mass Water. I don't know if you thought about this as a resilient technology when you first became involved in it. Where does that fit on the scale? because water is something that is that is critical to several of those elements, if not all of them.

Carmichael Roberts  22:43 

Right, now that's a great example. Sometimes a product can cut across several needs. That's when you have a really special opportunity, right? Water is just one of those topics. Clean drinking water is just a topic that is critical for almost all the above. All the topics that we talked about. If you look at safety and security in the world is one of the major topics these days. Even most people would say above what used to be oil and gas having the number one slot.

We know clean drinking water is critical for health. We know it's critical for nourishment, in eating and so forth. Including growing the right sorts of things that we can eat. So you think about that topic and it ranks really high. I did think about it early on, when Zero Mass was, in its infancy stage that let Cody Friesen at Zero Mass [the founder and CEO] was touching significantly on all of those topics.

Tyler Suiters  23:57 

What a great example of the white space innovation that's possible. In the resilient sector, right? Because we're talking about an entire suite of technologies that are to some extent ride on backbone innovations that are still to come. So I'm curious, if you would share your perspective Carmichael on what the innovations that you see driving the resilient sector are? Is it 5G? Is it is it blockchain? Digital health may be in there somewhere? And in the case of Zero Mass, it's solar energy right?

Carmichael Roberts  24:37 

Well, here's the thing that's really amazing. It's typically a confluence of things that already exist. So what do I mean by that? Let's just stick with Zero Mass, we've been talking about that.

Tyler Suiters  24:52 

Yeah, please.

Carmichael Roberts  24:53 

Solar energy in terms as a heat source, that's all well known. That's been known for a very long time. Things like understanding that there's moisture in the air, that can be condensed. Well today I'm driving my car and this morning it wasn't raining but it was kind of humid. I had to deal with the water on my windshield, naturally, right? Then it starts raining, you got to deal with that water. So that source of water from the air, it's always been there. If you then look at the ability to sort of combine those things. That's what I mean, by the confluence of stuff. That's where I see the future. But let me even go further.

Zero Mass Water and these units, these source units. There's data that gets generated. We've installed 40 units in Kenya. So we want to monitor them. The headquarters of the organizations is in Arizona. So we want to make sure that on a cloudy day, or day that the temperature is 10 degrees lower than average. That we could look at the water output for every last one of those units. So then you go back to data and how through the cloud, you can monitor things.

But, not only that, you can also adjust the settings on those units. So then you start thinking about well, even though it's a hardware that people kind of see, touch and feel. That ability to control the data to even understand or if to guarantee, that the the purity of the water is consistent. In a unit death sitting in Mexico, or Ecuador or in Flint, Michigan. And so, that confluence of that's what's needed, right? When you really think about what are the solutions. That sometimes it's not a new invention in the laboratory that has never been done before. Sometimes it's creative engineering around a problem using things that exist. And that's the innovation.

When I look at a lot of the small companies and large companies  work that's being done today. I see a lot of the applications being more like that. Tyler, this is really important for me to say, because what I would not want the world to think is. The only solutions come from brand new inventions that never existed before. Then you sort of sit here and say, I'm waiting for that to happen. Whereas sometimes maybe 75% of what you see, are just really brilliant combinations of things that already existed except in combination they never existed. That's where the solutions sit so we have more control over our destiny to solve some of these difficult problems than we would ever realized.

Tyler Suiters  28:15 

Yeah, what a great emphasis on synergy. Carmichael. Final question and I want to pull back a little bit to that other roughly 25% of things that are new in the resilient sector. So in the short term, if you would prognosticate a bit, you are at CES 2019. And you're at the Nexus of smart cities and resilience. What's the one thing you're looking for, or expect to see or hope to see in that innovation space around technologies for resilience?

Carmichael Roberts  28:45 

Wow, that's a great question. What is the one thing that I hope to see? And you're right, just to digress a little bit. I also don't want to suggest that there's not room for amazing inventions that come about that are just game changing. That's on another part of the exciting work that I do, is that finding those things. In many cases, those things finding me. To your point about what would I look for. I'm more of a, go and look at where the unsolved problems are poorly addressed needs are. Where it almost feels that they're not solved. Where you just don't seem to have solutions.

And so, if I were to think about a couple of those today, I would say that the world has done a really good job in generating clean energy. Sometimes in some cases, we can generate stuff but, we can't store it. So one of the things I'd like to see in Smart Cities are really clever, inexpensive, cost efficient ways of storing energy for long periods of time. We come back to somewhere between smart cities and resilience. It's a lot of times resilient means being able to store things, just like nature does when squirrels put away acorns or bears store fat, right? I mean, they just taught us that the ability to be able to store things when we have an event, of an abundance is really important. That's a major thing that I would love to see on that Nexus of smart cities and resilience. I probably would, right now put that in my top three, for sure. Yeah, and I could think about maybe some other stuff, but that was pretty heavily on my mind.

Tyler Suiters  30:50 

He is founder and partner of material impact. But that really doesn't begin to do justice of what Carmichael Roberts offers in the tech and innovation sector. And if you're like me, you realize that a conversation with him just leaves you smarter. After you wrap up, Carmichael thank you for sharing your insight and look ahead into the future of where resilience is and where we're going to be.

Carmichael Roberts  31:13 

Thank you so much, Tyler. It's my pleasure and privilege.

Tyler Suiters  31:17 

Grant Thornton is one of the world's leading organizations of independent audit tax and advisory firms. And with us today is Nichole Jordan, who is a national managing partner of markets, clients and industry. Nicole, it's great to have you with us today. Thanks for your time.

Nichole Jordan  31:34 

Pleased to be with you, Tyler. Thank you.

Tyler Suiters  31:36 

Sure. So one of the things we've been discussing today is resilience can mean different things to different sectors of industry, certainly. In the tech sector, it certainly means one thing to us but what about the professional services industry and  the clients you're dealing with across multiple industries

Nichole Jordan  31:55 

Well, we see organizational resilience, the business side and the cultural side of resilience, really in three phases. So preparation for disruptions, challenges and really baking that into a company's culture and strategy. Preparedness is really the key muscle that implements resilience. The second area is in response. So it's key, how a company or how an individual responds to the changes, response to obstacles, challenges, stresses and disasters. Number three, the ability to adapt, grow and really reinvent or redesign. Maybe it's a company strategy. It's the operations, it's the business model or it's a redesign of the value to the customer itself. But essentially, we see resilience as that ability to, as they say, bounce forward even better than you were before. While maintaining your purpose and really coming out ahead.

Tyler Suiters  33:06 

So let's talk about the implementation there, Nichole, best practices? What are you seeing right now with executives, board members, or management in general. To build organizational resiliency, that it's part of their strategies, right? It supports the team. But it also is external. It's about customers and really the future of their business.

Nichole Jordan  33:28 

Absolutely Tyler, so on the organizational resiliency side for the enterprise. We see management and the board executives playing very key roles in developing this organizational resilience. In our view, it really begins with that culture of trust, as the foundation. Building resilience into the strategy and performance management, being clear on the value and the returns associated with a highly resilient organization.

So Tyler, it's things like higher profits, greater responsiveness to customers ever changing needs, greater ability to innovate, greater retention. Resiliency starts with that culture of trust as the foundation. And when trust is high, you can see the benefits. Decisions are made quickly. Teams share information, they innovate together, they win together and they address challenges and opportunities more quickly and more freely. So we focus with our clients on how to build and maintain that trust.

Tyler Suiters  34:38 

Yeah, some interesting approaches there. What about the back end of all of this, the results? How do you know when you're getting positive results? How do you measure them? How are you working toward achieving these results and resiliency?

Nichole Jordan  34:52 

Great question, Tyler. T here's always the trusted source of the data and being very transparent in the way that you're measuring. For example, trust within your culture, your employee feedback and really pulsing your employees regularly. Being very transparent with the business results and with the outcomes of resilience. But I think other things that we do, we often help organizations achieve the results. For example, with board members. Taking them outside of the boardroom.

To show them how companies are innovating, maybe proceeding through a Silicon Valley tour. Another area is really helping them create a benchmark, like a scorecard or a resiliency index. It's that chance to really do an assessment and compare yourself to the best practice that you've set for your company that you set for yourself individually, or even ultimately, to compare yourself to your peers. So there are a number of approaches and innovations that can lead to similar success for a company. And we help them figure out the path that is right for them.

Tyler Suiters  36:10 

So let's address the intersection at CES where best practice and innovation and ideation come together with these practical technology driven applications. right? What are the technologies that you see, really enabling growth in the resiliency sector? Is it around AI [artificial Intelligence]? Is it around 5G and connectivity? Maybe it's all the above? Right? What really has your attention where you're seeing progress right now, Nicole?

Nichole Jordan  36:42 

Absolutely. So one of the exciting areas that we're seeing is that the ability to leverage AI and machine learning to drive growth. And Tyler, we couldn't be more excited to join CES this year and see all of the new innovations out there. One of the things that our customers are really looking for is truly that way to drive a more significant growth system to increase the speed and accuracy relative to value and risk that they're measuring.

Tyler Suiters  37:20 

Nichole, we've been looking at this from a top down viewpoint so far. What are your key takeaways? It's so much to digest in a relatively new sector to so many parts of industry. How do you summarize it? What's your exact sum, when you're pitching business, or you're giving your elevator summary of exactly what resilience means right now and where we are?

Nichole Jordan  37:45 

Absolutely. So three key takeaways. The first is build organizational resilience into the culture and into your performance management system. It will enable you to almost leave from the middle out. Leaders really being at the intersection of all the constituencies within the organization, driving, inclusion and when an issue hits they are all communicating. They know that they are able to take on strategic risks that changes. Certainly it's a constant, it's an inevitable, but it is not to be feared. You can build that into the culture. Secondly, is again on preparation. Preparing for the future. We really believe that the preparedness is the key muscle that implements resilience. So investing in learning about the future daily, CES is a great way to do that Tyler. We're looking forward to hosting our clients at CES for that type of learning. Getting an outside in perspective from external peers and internally, up down and with your peers inside your organization. So these are some of the ways that we see kind of in that preparedness area. We think that is so key over time, preparedness provides a higher return on investment than all of the reactive approaches. So we invest big in that ability to prepare. The third and final area is just activating your own resilience and building your individual resilience, muscle.

Tyler Suiters  39:36 

Let's take some explanation, Nichole.

Nichole Jordan  39:39 

That may be individually just thinking about your mindset and the way that you approach things. Are you approaching things differently today? Managing your energy and your stress. Mindfulness, self awareness, so that you can be a better influence. Let's say with in your organization. Then of course, continuous learning yourself individually, as well as for your teams. So those are a couple of the areas that build that muscle individually for resilience or for your company. As a leader, build resilience into the strategy and into the system and the way that you run the organization. You will drive greater return, greater performanceand a culture that really has a highly engaged employee base. And Tyler, we know that there is no end to the opportunities when you've got a highly engaged workforce.

Tyler Suiters  40:42 

Nichole Jordan is with Grant Thornton. And this is clearly evidence is this is very much on your radar that corporate america and industries across the spectrum are very much paying attention to conversations around technology, and resilience right now. Nichole, thanks for the time and looking forward to catching up with you at CES 2019 in Las Vegas.

Nichole Jordan  41:02 

Thank you, Tyler. Looking forward to it.

Tyler Suiters  41:05 

All right, we really want you to join us for our next episode. We're talking about self driving vehicles. Of course, this will make your drive to work much more efficient, your time in the car much more productive. But this is also getting seniors to and from doctors appointments and helping people with disabilities get back into the workforce. All kinds of transformative life improving applications for SDV is as we call them, and among our conversations coming up a journalist who covers the self driving vehicle sector, and she has talked to folks in Silicon Valley here in Washington, D.C., about policy. At those technology hubs around the U.S. But also one or two cities you may not think of as a place where self driving vehicles are very much changing opinions.

Kim Hart  41:58 

I actually I have family in Tampa and to but Florida is one of the testing grounds for building out kind of smart roads and smart highways to test some of these these cars and they're very excited about it. They think wow, this is ...

Tyler Suiters  42:12 

This is cool. OK, so a reminder for you subscribe to this podcast is the best way to make sure you don't miss any of our episodes as we're getting you geared up for CES 2019.

Speaking of, all the information you need on CES 2019. That's this coming January 8-11 in Las Vegas. All the info is at CES.tech. That's CES.tech.

As always, this entire show revolves around two people and I am not among them. John Lindsey is our outstanding studio engineer, and Tina Anthony is a producer without parallel in the podcast business, at least according to me. You are both the greatest. Thank you. And we appreciate your time and attention as well. Thanks for joining us. We will see you at our next episode. I'm Tyler Suiters. Let's talk tech again soon.