Shelley Zalis 

Hey everyone, welcome to CES We are so excited to be here and I could not be more thrilled to have this conversation. And for anyone that has ever heard me moderate, I don't really believe in moderating. It's about having unplugged conversations and talking about the good, bad and the ugly. And so having a topic called the hidden diversity dividend. Well, why is it hidden? Let's unhide it, because we certainly can't fix it if it's hidden, right. And so I think today we're going to have a real unplugged conversation about the truth and what will it take to unhide this diversity problem? And so I want to start with each of you telling me who you are, what you do. And one of the things that really pisses me off is the word unconscious bias. We talk about unconscious bias as our excuse for everything yet if you're using the word unconscious, your conscious so let's have a conscious conversation. Tell me at the same time a bias that just really pisses you off.

Karen Chupka 

So I'm Karen Chupka, Executive Vice President of CES and let's see a bias that really pisses me off is probably that sometimes, actually now as I get older, I kind of looked at sometimes in a way that is disregarded because, you know, some of the younger staff members don't expect me to be on a Snapchat or a tik tok or using technology maybe in the way that they are and they kind of assume that I'm skewing in a different way. So that's one of the biases that kind of pisses me off.

Shelley Zalis 

I love that. I mean, ageism is a real challenge. And when we talk about diversity, we always talk about gender. And we talked about race, but we always forget about talking about age. It's the first time in history we have five generations in the workplace, Gen Z coming in traditionalist moving out but retiring later. Young people don't want to work with quote unquote, old people because they don't want to work with people their parents age, and the older generation doesn't think the younger people know Anything. So, you know, it's time to create inter generational teams as well.

Karen Chupka 

And I got to be on both sides of that because I was the young woman in the industry at one day too. So I understand you're young, young

Shelley Zalis 

mindset. That's it. Antonio.

Antonio Lucio 

Hi, Antonio Lucio I'm the Chief Marketing Officer for Facebook and all its apps. The the one bias that bothers the hell out of me is when black and Latinos are labeled as aggressive or difficult. When in reality, we are passionate.

Shelley Zalis 

I love that. And Catalyst just did an amazing campaign, which I'm obsessed with called bias. Correct, which is really flipping the script. There's all these biases that create negative connotations. You're too aggressive. You're too bossy, and you know, it's really using a new lexicon. I'm not too bossy. I'm the boss. I'm not too bossy. Sheryl Sandberg says you have executive presence. I'm not aggressive. I'm happy. It. So it is time to flip the script. Totally agree. Stephanie and

Stephanie McMahon 

Stephanie McMahon chief brand officer for WWE, and really, all bias pisses me off. I hate that, you know, as people, we tend to judge one another without knowing one another based on what we look like, based on our gender based on whatever that may be. And, you know, it all bothers me, quite frankly, ever since I was a little kid with Andre the Giant and people would judge him just because of his size. And it's a lesson I learned pretty early on in life.

Shelley Zalis 

But it's amazing because I interviewed some NFL players recently and, and they said, you know, just because we're NFL players, people think we're tough. And we, we don't have any emotion and they said, you know, we cry in our huddles and we share things that connect us in ways that we never imagined. So it is okay to show your emotion because It does show your passion and your humility and your vulnerability when you just tell everybody what you gave me as a gift at Canne

Stephanie McMahon 

I gave Shelley a customized WWE Women's Championship belt because if there was ever a champion for women and gender equality it is Shelley Zalis

Shelley Zalis 

Down the closet in 100 degrees and it is heavy. By the way, but while we're on that subject, you know, my favorite topic is the the champion belt for you know, WWE. What, when we talked about the hidden diversity dividend, and you made it not so hidden, what was one of the biggest changes you made, you know, in in wrestling?

Stephanie McMahon 

Well, it really was how our women were portrayed in the show. So, you know, our women were portrayed around 2015 and prior as more secondary, if not tertiary type characters. They were seen as nice to have not the need to have. And there was a match that lasted all of 30 seconds in a three hour show, which unfortunately was the norm in our audience that had enough. So they started a hashtag called give divas a chance, which was how we branded the division at the time, and it trended worldwide for three days with our audience demanding better representation, better character development, better storylines, more athleticism, longer matches, and their voices were so loud that our chairman and CEO who was also my father, Vince McMahon responded and said, We hear you keep watching hashtag give divas a chance. So then at WrestleMania, which is akin to our Super Bowl in front of over 101,000 people at at&t Stadium. We strategically launched the rebranding of the Divas division to the women's division unveiled a new championship belt that was more akin to the men's but still very feminine. It was a butterfly There was, and now it is much better looking and Shelley will share those those photos later. And also that our women would be called superstars same as the men. Since that time, our women have actually headlined WrestleMania. For the first time in 35 years this past April, we had our first ever women's match in Abu Dhabi, which took us six years to be able to have that match. And during the match, a chant broke out of both men and women chanting. This is hope, which is not a typical WWE chant. This is hope. You can imagine the impact that that had on little girls that were sitting in the audience and women and men. And then for the first time ever in history in Saudi Arabia and October, we had the first ever women's match and the chant there was simply This is awesome.

Shelley Zalis 

I was barely was there, which is the craziest thing. I was in Riyadh for one day, and one day only, and Stephanie sees that I'm in Riyadh because uh, you

Stephanie McMahon 

know, I didn't even know you're in Riyadh. I texted you to let you know because I told you something we were working on for so long. And I randomly texted you to let you know it was going to happen and you were like, Oh my god, I'm on a plane on the way right now. That is

Shelley Zalis 

the craziest thing was crazy 30 Saudi women to the match in Riyadh, which was remarkable. So kudos to you. And so, so much change, you know, can happen if we believe it's possible. So Antonio, you have been truly such a champion for change inside of our industry, marketing, media, technology, research, you know, finance across industries. Is it hard to activate change, like, tell us a story of something you made a commitment to do? And did it just like Stephanie did? So

Antonio Lucio 

is it hard? Yes. Is them harder is supposed to be hard because things that matter a lot are supposed to be hard. I think we have made it harder than it should shelleyan You and I have had a number of conversations. This this year I turned 60. And I become a rather loving but very impatient man I saw my first grandchild. be born, of course, is a woman, in addition to my five daughters, and an amazing time and this whole notion of when you see two generations behind you gives you a renewed sense of purpose, but also a sense of urgency. You and I have been talking about this in panels like this for over a freaking decade. And we know it's hard. We know it takes holistic and systemic change. By the way, the freaking playbook has been written. The business case has been established just this last week. One, how many more studies are we going to need to get things done? Unfortunately, our industry, which I love has many great things. But sometimes I feel we're in a race for the PR stunt. And not and we're not working together enough and you live the quintessential example. When the AMA developed with you the gym score, which it's a comprehensive plan, we know it works, we have results is quantitatively proven. We have the cases and then other associations, they have decided to have a different score. And then we have the race of the press release. So one The things that I hope we're able to accomplish in this decade is for the industry to work closer together to focus on those things that we know works, what works. scorecards work, what works a comprehensive programs that involve holistic and systemic change among marketers, agencies, production houses, and the entire ecosystem. Mentoring people working at the same time in inclusion, as well as representation because both are incredibly important, and then holding ourselves accountable. That's the playbook. There's nothing else. Nothing more is as simple and as complicated as is. And I think that's what's getting in the way of progress today.

Shelley Zalis 

I think that you know, that is very true and very fair, and I learned something new the other day, which I'm kind of you know, bullish on Which is it's not just about representation, it's about reflection. Absolutely. And one of the biggest challenges we have is it's not being represented, it's how you feel. And if everyone can see themselves there and feel reflected, that's where we create this culture of belonging and that we can all bring our best selves to the table. Which means it's very important if we want to attract and retain the best talent, to have representation and reflection.

Antonio Lucio 

But it's, it's, it takes hard work. And it takes consistency, because even in companies like

Shelley Zalis 

this, but you need to be brave and not be afraid,

Antonio Lucio 

but but even in companies like ours at Stanford University, we have an inclusion problem problems with our black employees a serious inclusion problem. We're going to deal with it we're going to but it This requires holistic and systemic change over significant period of time and not the flavor of the month, not the flavor of the PR stunt. Need requires a lot of union and critical, critical mass, which is something that you're trying to do and build and hopefully we're all going to get together on it. Well, we're

Karen Chupka 

More to say that's something like as the consumer Technology Association we've been trying to do more of is bringing our member companies and sharing best practices, what's really working, you know, let's really bring people who are who are having successful programs who are doing things that that they're seeing the results of, and sharing it with other people. We have 2200 corporate members as part of CTA, and everybody from, you know, small startups to companies like yourself and WWE, even as a member, thank you. But you know, it's kind of a great, it's kind of a nice way because it's a it's sometimes, like you were saying, and sometimes rather than being kind of in a PR world, this is where, you know, you're kind of behind closed doors, sharing that information and trying to figure out what's best for your company, and how can you do something that's better for your company, and this is new for us. I mean, it's something that we've only had underway for past year and a half. But, you know, I think it's it's an important role that we get to play as an association. Sorry, there's a bug there. I'm not being weird. But it likes me. So, so and I, you know, I think that's, that's also roles that associations can help play with companies to do it, because it is hard when you're trying to carve the path on your own. And like you said, You know, sometimes things aren't working. And then it's easier to kind of sometimes for give up on them,

Shelley Zalis 

But I wanted to go there because, you know, Antonio unlocked the conversation of the power of collaboration and how important it is to share the Good, bad and the ugly, and that's how progress happens. You know, people are afraid to fail, and try new things. But if we all do that together, you know, it's a lot more fun, a lot less scary and, and we go further faster, for sure. And so CES has taken a very bold and strong, you know, step forward, which was to make a quality, really a focus of you know where you're going and of course, became your official equality partner. So thank you for that. That's a conscious decision. You know, I always say, qualities of choice unconscious biases and excuse, what was the moment that you decided it was time to stop just waiting for change to happen, but to actually push forward and take that big giant step. 

Karen Chupka 

I think I mean, for us, you know, I think part of it is that that, you know, we, I mean, we we have always tried to be inclusive, and for us inclusive is a even broader definition because, you know, we're attracting people from 160 different countries where we have to somewhat be sensitive to different cultures, who are coming to the show people with different beliefs, different practices, as well, as, you know, a lot of a lot of what we also bring in here is is folks, you know, we have visually impaired people, I mean, we were really dealing with 170,000 people, everybody that comes with something different. So it's trying to find what's the right balance and you know, also it's Try not to be in a role where you're not pleasing. Everybody that you're not looking at somebody, I think, like you were saying and saying, well, that's wrong, you're wrong. Right? And I mean, it kind of is a judgment thing. And so it's really hard. How do you how do you judge what's appropriate, and trying to balance and find the right balance. And so you know, that was one of the things that we really tried to do this year was to take a little bit of a stronger stance of saying, okay, here are the parameters. But you know, what, they're probably going to have to change and they probably will continue to change. And I think that's probably the most important thing that we learned is, we just have to reevaluate and look and adapt each year and figure out what's right for that moment in time because you can't necessarily future proof yourself. But as long as you're continually looking and willing to look at what what you need to change and adapt and learn. And you know, I'm sure there will be a mistake that will make somewhere over the course of this week that will hear about, and, you know, the hope is that we take that information and we and we fix it and we change it and we make it better going forward. And you know, I think that's the most important part is being committed to making it better. I think what was interesting this year is one of the things that we did is rolled out a stronger dress code. And probably we had a dress code, it's just that now we have a penalty phase or somebody that is an exhibitor if you if you don't adhere to it. And what was really helpful is it actually created a lot of contact from exhibitors asking, is this, okay? And those are really the conversations we want to have, we want people to have a great experience, we want them to be able to show their brands in the way that they need to show their brands. And, you know, and the fact that we're able to have those conversations now, I think is just better for everybody. So

Shelley Zalis 

that's why I just have to applaud you for that. Because, you know, we've all heard about the booth babes. And, you know, let's just get right to it. And I think that, you know, you implemented the uniform so that people are showcasing their products. And you know, being very intentional about that. And so I think that that was a really big move and you're gonna you know, have haters haters will hate. You gotta just give them the benefit of the doubt and if they want to keep doing that You move on, and you'll find, you know, new people that, that come on board as result, but you got to push forward. Yeah.

Karen Chupka 

And I think, you know, hopefully what, and I'll use this as a forum to say this, but you know, one of the things that's helpful to us is it's 4500 exhibitors, or we can't be everywhere, we don't see everything. And so we do need help on some, you know, something is out there on the floor, and we've tried to put this in our CES app that you can immediately report something to us you can take a picture send it to us and then we can do something about it. And you know, I think that's also something that that's that we're asking everybody to help us is don't tell us five weeks from now you were offended tell us when it's happening because we can't fix it after the fact you know, we can we now have ways to definitely change things when it when it's happened and as in when it's reported, but we need everybody to be our eyes and ears. And you're right. We can't always make everybody happy. But you know, there's what's reasonable and you know, and then how do we adapt and how do we change? But I do hate the word babe. Can we call them booth workers are

Shelley Zalis 

They are a booth employees

Stephanie McMahon 

Glad you clarified about the uniform because I was beginning to wonder about my biker boots and leather pants,

Karen Chupka 

we love your biker boots.

Shelley Zalis 

Borrow those tomorrow. Today just don't get photographed too often and I can look fresh tomorrow. So let's let's go to, you know, one of the really crazy statistics is that by 2024 we think that two thirds of the computing positions will be unfilled because there's such a lack of talent, or is there a lack of talent? You know, why are we seeing these numbers? You know, being published, how do we get more especially diversity into the pipeline? You know, tech, we start 50/50 and most other industries in tech, we start at much lower levels. You know, what are some solutions for change that you're all working on?

Karen Chupka 

Those is it. I mean, one of the things that a CTA we did is that we've actually, IBM was kind enough to partner with us and Give us kind of a roadmap to the apprenticeship program, and has helped us make it available to all of our members. And so what's great about this is it's basically taking workers and retraining them and re skilling them. So for the future jobs that you need. And the great thing is these aren't people that are required to have four year degrees, right? It's actually teaching them the coding that you need as your company and how to roll that out. And so I think that helps with a lot of barriers. Because, you know, it doesn't mean that there's already some commitment or some skill set that somebody has already had if they can come in and start learning and being taught how to do the jobs that they that are going to be the jobs of the future. So, Association we've tried to put out there to help prepare the workforce for the future because we do recognize that there's going to be a need for skilled workforce.

Shelley Zalis 

I know it Facebook, Antonio, they did a two for one, where you know, really doubling up on filling the pipeline, and now working on making sure you have diversity in the hiring staff too, because you could fill the pipeline but if you don't diversity in hiring, they can still choose, you know, quote unquote, the people that look like them, How have your diversity efforts within Facebook been going and how do you really groom this next generation of talent. So,

Antonio Lucio 

our efforts have been significantly more successful in non engineering to be completely blunt and honest in non engineering roles than in engineering roles. We have big representation of particularly on on females on on our senior leadership position in general General Counsel show as as CEO, the head of the Facebook app is a fantastic lady from from France, Fiji cmo. So we are making significant progress in all those in all those areas. People of Color is an issue for us. I am the only one who The senior management, senior management team. So we are working on that very aggressively. And engineering is, is, is the problem. It's a very competitive, it's a very competitive field, but it will start. And I believe that that is the case in every single one of our fields. The moment that you have bosses that represent the populations that you need to bring forth, the more that they're going to bring those people with with them is very difficult for you as as a woman, as a person of color, as someone with disabilities, to look up and say, you know, I really have no role models that I can that I can follow, that I can pursue. And if if that's not part of the consideration set, you're not going to follow those particular careers. You have to be able to dream just like with athletes. I want to When you're a little kid, I want to be like, such and such. The same was true in the business world, you want to be like, Cheryl, you want to be like, X, Y, and Z across the board. That's the biggest challenge that I think we have. And that's the one that we're gonna have to fix first. 

Shelley Zalis 

I think that's, you know, really important, I always say that the collective minority is greater than the current majority. And if we really think about that the power of minorities and why we need that diversity at the table, and I want to get to a diversity conversation, but Stephanie, I want to go to you because Antonio brought up you know, really, if you can see those role models, there's aspiration and you are doing so much with hashtag see her and the AMA, but just in general, with more visibility of women in sports, you know, why are you doing that? What are you doing, how are you doing it and you know, what are our hopes around that

Stephanie McMahon 

Sure, loaded question and to answer back to the question that was posed before as well, our chief technology officer is very closely partnered with our new head of diversity and HR. And women hiring women in particular for him has been something that he's been leading even before. You know, it has become such a PR issue, something that he recognized and the strength of his team when you have women and men and people of color because the more diverse your teams are, I think the better decisions as a company you're going to be able to make in terms of representation, being able to see her is something I've lived by my mom was the CEO of WWE, so I always had that female role model. I never thought when I was growing up that women couldn't be CEO or that there was some kind of barrier. I just honestly assumed that they should be. And you know, it's only later in life that I experienced more gender bias and saw the huge discrepancies, especially in sports. One of the things that I'm partnered with Shelly on and of course, see her is see her in sports. Currently only 4% of sports representation is women across the board in terms of media. So you know, when you hear people say, Oh, yeah, women in sports who NBA just to use an example, yeah, but no one goes to the games, or no one watches the games. Do you guys know when they're on? Do you ever see a play of the week when you're like, Oh, my God, those girls just brought it because they do. These women bring it all the time. You're just not seeing it, you're not hearing enough about it. So that's something that we're all working on. And that obviously I'm very passionate about. I've definitely been accused of being aggressive in my time.

Shelley Zalis 

Less than 4% of highlight reels are featuring women in sports. So if we now know this, you know, I always say it starts with awareness. Yep. Right knowledge we now know. Then it's the education. Now we have to move to action. Yep. Why is it so hard to just do 50/50? highlight reels? Like, I'm just confused. No idea. Does anybody have any idea? why anyone out there?

Stephanie McMahon 

Like, it's the accountability factor? You know? And how can you hold people accountable now that there's knowledge? How are you going to make change? How are you going to hold people accountable? Are you going to demonstrate to take this step? Because I hear the arguments, I hear both sides of it? Oh, well, you know, you don't want to take the risk of featuring more women because men don't want to watch women and it's a majority male network. You know, men are the viewers. So why are we going to take this risk? So I hear it, you know, I hear both sides of it. But you have to be willing to take the risk you need to have, as you were saying, Antonio, the leaders, the people who are willing to be brave and stand up and try something new, and prove everybody wrong, but it shouldn't be so hard to your point show.

Shelley Zalis 

I just don't get it. I mean, I also don't understand. So I want to talk about parity policy and pipeline.

Antonio Lucio 

Issue, the issue is one of which is hard. Change is hard for us as people individually. And change is significantly harder when you're talking about, about the collective and you have momentum and you have business practices and you have entire departments of people doing things, a very specific way people have been trained as to how to do those things people have become experts as to how to become the moment that you want to change that you're going to have to take a risk. And you're going to have to prove that it works as good as that's why it's so it's so hard. And and and our role as leaders has to be to create the space for those test to actually happen. And I'll give you one specific examples on sports. I'm a passionate about soccer or football because we actually use your feet in my side of the world. And, and in the US in the US, it's a female sport, the ratings for the for the World Cup winners were through the roof bigger than men bringing, we need to create the space to actually showcase those reels, those instances. And then things demonstrate that it is indeed a very fact, a very feasible business proposal and things are going to begin to change because it will work. But if you don't have the leaders to create the room, the space for the risk, destroying that momentum, that wall is going to be very hard.

Karen Chupka 

I'll ask the question that do you think some of this will change? generationally, though, because I do feel like younger, you know, I know like my niece and nephews who are in their teens. I mean, they really view things differently. They're not necessarily tied into the roles that we are at, you know, as we grow up And so I do wonder if maybe some of our future leaders will have a different way because they've just grown up differently. And they haven't necessarily grown up in the buckets that maybe in some instances, we I don't know,

Antonio Lucio 

I hope you're right. I just cannot wait for the next generation to take care of a problem that I fundamentally helped create. I have a responsibility, we all should have a responsibility, we should own the space that we are given the positions that we hold our privileges, and we should use them to actually create the level of change that we want. Because otherwise, if if we don't begin that even those new generations are going to get frustrated when they don't see people like the three of you in in top positions. And we need to do better in marketing. Yes, 50% of the CMOS today. 47% to be exact, are females, but the creative directors are only 30%. And when you talk about the directors of the The contact is less than 10%. When 90% of the consumers are women, we need to create this space and make the bold move to change those equations so that people can see what it could be like, although otherwise, I don't know, I don't. I had, I have my my granddaughter to think about.

Karen Chupka 

I have my niece, I remember when she was a young child, probably three or four. And she kept saying, you know, ballerina, ballerina, ballerina, Princess, whatever. And I was like, yeah, and then I was like, Wait a second, you can be a ballerina until you're 35. And you can go around the world and tour and become an expert in international relations. Because when you turn 35 you wouldn't be president united states. That's what you want to be. She's like, why do I want to do that? And they said, because then you get to set the rules and she's like, Oh, I'm all in on that. I want to run everything right. But you know, it was cuz like, we think about little girls and if somebody wants to be a ballerina, we kind of sort of go do that. Or

Shelley Zalis 

a ballerina ballerinas. Okay. There was a lot there was a whole conversation about one of the princes His sons was in ballet and an anchorperson kind of criticized the fact that a boy was in ballet and created a whole thing. I mean,

Karen Chupka 

I don't know I'm an ex Pittsburgh Steeler fan Lynn Swann took ballet is one of the greatest receivers as a result of those skills. Right? So it so But anyways, we also have that opportunity with with our children thinking of how we encourage them differently and how to think differently and sometimes, you know, we want to encourage the kids to just be happy and then you think about but wait a second, what message Am I sending them if I tell them you can only do x? Let me make them you know, think bigger and be bigger.

Shelley Zalis 

ballet is probably good for football to Antonio. Yeah.

Stephanie McMahon 

There's a ballet just as we're talking about our kids and cute stories. So my oldest daughter when she was eight years old, she said to me, Mama, I don't want your job. Daddy. I don't want your job because my husband and I both work for our family's business. I want pops job. She wants to be the boss. 

Shelley Zalis 

girl she will be I love that. That is really awesome. So let's go to solutions. You know, we've talked about the challenges, we we also talked about our responsibility. And I don't think we should let this next generation inherit, you know, let them have their own new problems to fix. So let's go. You know, we talked a lot about equality hacks, how do you hack equality? What's some low hanging fruit, things you can do that are actionable, ripe and ready, that could go a long way to starting to push us in the right direction.

Karen Chupka 

I mean, I think you know, one of the things I always notice even as, as it Association, we have new people coming in and because because there are a lot of times, relationships, you know, people who've worked together for years years, it's hard to come in, and to know where you fit. And and I've seen, you know, CEOs of top companies, I've seen smaller startups coming in Trying to understand how, like, how do I become part of this organization? And so in some instances, it's it's taking that first step and going and welcoming somebody and saying, I'm glad you're here. Who do you want to meet? How do I help introduce you? How do I help make this, you know, special for you? And I think sometimes we just forget that just having that Hello, nice to meet you. How can I help you can also change the way somebody can approach something and feel more included into something. Because I think that's always the hardest time it doesn't matter who you are, when you walk into the room and you're the stranger in the room, and you're trying to figure out how do you fit in? So sometimes it's the littlest thing just to say hi a long way. Hi, how can I help you

Antonio Lucio 

in I think, I think when we when we do a significantly better job on on the candidate slate that we have for every single position within the organization. If you don't have a balanced slate, male, female, if you don't have the right level of representation on the hiring slate, you this thing is not going to happen. And by spontaneous generation. So it starts by that you can be very methodical about that. Unfortunate we have years of momentum and practices in terms of where are the talent, talent banks that we feel comfortable about with and then and then we need to, to, to get two new sources of talent to ensure that when decisions are made, at least the people that are making the decision, have a very balanced and broad slate from which to choose from, and that we should all do and we should all commit to that's something that we are working on.

Shelley Zalis 

Starting at entry level, starting at entry level. So you doing a lot of work on campuses, yes,

Antonio Lucio 

to starting an entry level, but the most and that's the easier part because the talent pools are there. You just go to campus and the harder it is when you're talking about what we were talking about before those senior roles that are going to become the role model. And the mentors of the future, you need to ensure that the slate is balanced so that at least females and people of color are part of the selection process. If they're not there in the slate, this is not going to move, it's good that we're going to be perpetuating the current practices for generations to come. That's the reason why I want you to do the straight line projection, equality, in terms of representation, and even salary is going to take forever.

Shelley Zalis 

And I think a lot of the problem is what we call the messy middle and middle management, we lose a lot of our greatest talent to caregiving. And you know, leadership is still predominantly men and caregiving is still predominantly women. And so unless we rewrite the rules in the workplace and create policies that allow everyone to bring their best selves to the table, and technology is our new best friend and helps us with flexibility and work schedules and you know, all kinds of things we need to take advantage of that as well to keep the talent At the top.

Stephanie McMahon 

I agree with everything everyone said. And in addition to that, you WWE just launched our first women's affinity group. And we actually partnered with land it, which is a technology company, and it is run and founded by a woman. And it's all about creating your professional brand, and that there's mentoring and coaching and all different kinds of things that are offered through this platform, which our female employees have found so helpful and was really eye opening to me. We had our first conversation, it was myself and our co president, Michelle Wilson. And we were, you know, having this conversation that I've had a million times on a million different panels, only, I never realized that I hadn't had it in my own company. And the amount of women who came up to me and Michelle, I've heard separately and everyone who's involved, thanking us for the opportunity for the tools, how helpful it was for them to hear our stories and things that we've experienced and what we've gone through And how we've overcome and giving them the tools that they need to stand up in the room and to have a voice. Because if you don't have a voice, if you don't say what you believe in, if you don't take that risk, you're never going to achieve what it is you want to achieve. Yes, it's scary to do that. But if you never take that risk, you'll never know. And you have to have that voice. You have to be willing to take that step. And yes, it's easier said than done. But that was one of the key messages that came back from that affinity group.

Shelley Zalis 

I love that and I started understanding what phrases we use no risk, no reward. You know, I never really understood that because risk is, is scary. But if you don't take it you like Einstein says, if you have the same logic that got you the other thing, you're never going to evolve. Yep. And I learned something new from Mary wells who is was the first most prominent successful woman in the agency business. She's probably 88 or 90 years old now. And she has a concept called double yourself. And what she says is, if You keep doing the same thing over and over, you are never going to evolve as a human, you're going to actually be quite boring. If you have the same friends and watch the same kind of movies and eat the same kind of food, you get boring, you got to double yourself, go to a new restaurant, meet a new person, you know, spend five minutes with someone, they might not be your best friend, but you're going to learn something. And that's how you continuously grow and stretch yourself. So how, in just our last couple of minutes, how are you going to double yourself?

Karen Chupka 

It's interesting years ago, I was had the fortunate opportunity to work with an executive coach, and you know, you interview executive coaches to figure out like, what's the fit, there was this woman that I met with and she was completely different for me that I mean, her ideas, everything about her was nothing that I saw myself. And I was like, she's the one I want. And partly because, you know, I think that is important sometimes is to understand different points of view and, and, and to have those conversations and to have somebody present something to you differently. It doesn't mean you always agree But at least if I can understand that I understand what's important to you, and I can do things differently. And it was just a really interesting experience. And, and so that that, to me was valuable and it's something that I try to do now is I always try to look at what's you know, what's kind of the thing that's a little bit uncomfortable or maybe a little bit different that I need to put myself into so that I can double myself

Antonio Lucio 

In my case, rather, recently, over the last three years, Shelley, I came to the very humbling conclusion that as active as I had been in transforming organizations on the gender side of the house, I was not doing my job with people of color. Over the last two years, have gone into a very personal Crusade, really get to understand and much the deeper level issues about race. This year, we began to experiment within the marketing organizations to have dinners, intimate dinners where where we could openly talk about, about the issues of race affecting not just the United States, but importantly, the workforce. The only way that bias is going to be dealt with when we create open forums to actually talk about them with respect, and with empathy, and and with the objective of creating a more inclusive culture. And that's kind of what I'm working on. Personally at this stage. I have to say that I'm at the beginning of my journey that I've learned a lot and as much as I thought that I had empathy. I discovered That I don't know a lot of things that I should have known. And, and that's my objective for the balance of the year. So it's a very, very deeply personal journey.

Stephanie McMahon 

Mine is education, to invest in my own education. And so I can be a better, more well rounded person, that education, whether it is in business, whether it's in life, I think is so important, but I think the key is really being open and having the conversations, listening to people's stories. It's something that we haven't brought forward that we started talking about from the very beginning, but that's the ability to see yourself and others and it's the basic form of storytelling, and it's why people care. You have to give them a reason to care. And if you can relate to what's happening, if you can hear about how something made somebody feel some action that happened to someone or An experience that they had and you can relate to that. It moves you and it opens your eyes and makes you look differently. And I think that that's a good goal for for me. And I think it's a good goal in general in life. I mean, you want to learn and grow every day, every day. Never, never be complacent, never just accept the status quo. just constantly challenge yourself to learn and grow and listen, really listen to people and hear them and feel them. I don't mean that literally.

Shelley Zalis 

You know, the quote, tell me something. I might remember teach me something I might learn make me feel something, I'll remember it forever. And it is it is that feeling. And I think it is about being conscious. You know, we all have bias. Let's just understand that none of us are part we all have bias. But we got to check that bias at the door and be open and learn and listen and that's when true change will happen is if we can acknowledge that we have work to do And we can get it done. And I think most importantly, it's about getting comfortable being uncomfortable. We are in an uncomfortable moment. But getting uncomfortable means we are just at the brink of stretching and growing. And so I am so thrilled we talked about this is hope, you know, I love that expression. This is hope, because we do have three leaders sitting right here that are conscious leaders. So thank you for joining this conversation together and let's go let's do this. Thank you.

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