Alison Haislip  

Thank you to the one person who started clapping. That was very nice. Hi everyone. Day one CES. He's already tired. We have so much longer to go. Welcome. This is Cox Automotive fourth consecutive year hosting a panel at CES. So one more year till we hit five and that's a great round number. Today we will be tackling the electrified future with an esteemed panel of leaders in this space, entitled Ready, Set Charge an Electrified Sustainable Tomorrow, which we all agreed backstage sounds like a new segment of tomorrow land and Disney World. I'm Alison Haislip. Some of you true geeks out there may remember me from Attack of the Show on the g4 network. Rip was also on ABC battlebots and who doesn't like robots destroying each other But right now I am the host of ride news now which is a daily video blog for a ride by Kelley Blue Book, which was launched last May to help educate and empower consumers about technology that is rapidly transforming the movement of people and goods today and in the future. Now, relevant today's topic, I have to do a little shout out. Ride will soon be launching a new Eevee comparison and decisioning tool to help interested or in market shoppers with their next electric vehicle purchase. The ride Evie advisor, as it is called will be available on both kbb.com and autotrader as well as a standalone app for both Android and iPhone users. Now before we get started on today's panel, I am going to invite up Lee Malloy Associate Vice President of Research and Development of Cox automotive mobility group to talk a bit more about what is currently going on within the world of EBS. So Lee We're gonna run a video


Lea Malloy  

would you believe all those cars are all electric? no gas is No emissions. I'm really excited to be here today. We've got a great panel and a lot of great partners covering all of automotive from auto manufacturers, the policy, the charging infrastructure, and more. I'm Lea Malloy, I lead r&d for Cox automotive mobility. And at Cox automotive mobility. We're passionate about the aces future of transportation. And our aces future is defined by Ariel as well as autonomous, connected, electric and shared. I believe in the battery electric vehicle, I believe in the opportunity it presents to drive innovation in automotive and energy while doing good for the environment. And we all have seen the interest rise in the battery electric. The top three reasons why consumers are starting to notice the battery electric really boiled down to three things. One less maintenance. Who doesn't like not having to change oil or with fewer moving parts? Think less service and maintenance. Then of course, we're doing good for the environment, who doesn't like reducing our carbon footprint from transportation. But last, and most importantly, the battery electric is a heck of a lot of fun to drive. And let's watch this clip to see just how


Video Audio  

This thing is like a race car. Wow.


Lea Malloy  

So I wanted to show you that because I wanted you to experience firsthand this really human emotion of joy. and excitement when you get behind the wheel of battery electric for the first time. And we know that with more awareness and accessibility, the energy behind the battery electric is only going to grow. But with that joy, I want to contrast that with a little bit of pain and a little bit the painful ramp to electrification we've all felt in this room. Again, whether you're an auto manufacturer, or whether you're in policy, working on infrastructure, or even energy, we've often hit a few bumps along the way. But as the future unfolds in front of us, there really three key themes that are going to shape our future. And it's all going to be about changing consumer expectations, more demand and access for charging infrastructure, and the impact to the grid, as well as climate change and policy. So as I talk for a few minutes today, I want to share how the electrified future of transportation looks through my lens. And the story I'm going to tell you is really all based on the content humor. We're all consumers. We know how we think and behave. And we know our behaviors and thoughts are hard to change. We also know a little bit about the consumer, in the sense that in today's market, the consumer is experiencing kind of some stagnant median household income. And they're also seeing prices of new cars continue to rise. And they're thinking to themselves, do I really want to sign up for a 72 or an 84 month payment. And maybe at the end of that, I may not even own the vehicle at all. The consumer is also considering when I go to work, when I go to school, when I come home, when I go to go run my errands, my car is sitting 95% of the time. So enter the sharing economy. And transportation is really no different than other industries we've seen be disrupted by sharing. Think about lodging or hotels, music, clothing, we're taking it an expensive asset that's under you, too. lies in presenting it back to the consumer in a more flexible way. So that's the picture number one about the consumer and the economic position they're in. I also want to talk a bit more about the consumer specific to the battery electric vehicle. We know the consumer really well through a lot of research we do at Cox automotive. We've also learned a few things about how the consumer as well as the dealer feels about the battery electric vehicle. What's neat about this research is it really points out five key barriers. And these barriers are shared by both the consumer in the dealer when you think about barriers to adoption. So it tells us there's a really important opportunity around education for the battery electric and driving awareness. And Cox automotive wants to play a really important role in that education process. So what are these barriers, they really boil down to three key things cost range, and I'm going to bucket with that access to charging infrastructure. And the third area that consumer is concerned about has everything to do with a battery, its life, its health, how much does the battery cost. So I'm going to take a few minutes and talk to you about what we're seeing play out in the market today with cost range in the battery. What KBB tells us is that, while we have seen the price of new cars increase about 19% over the last seven years, we've seen the price and ease increase about 2%. Kelley Blue Book also tells us that the cost of owning a battery electric is about 58%, less than owning a gasoline vehicle. Most of that is made up by savings on fuel, but they're also savings related to service. And I think that 58% is conservative. So what we're seeing playing out in the marketplace is while the consumer perceives that the battery electric More expensive. In reality, there's a lot of data to suggest that that gap is closing. When we think about range, the consumer has, has a mindset that I want the range of my battery electric vehicle to equal that of my gasoline vehicle. So the target is about 240 or 250 miles. And we're seeing several battery electric vehicles on the road today that achieve that range. And we know a whole lot more coming. And then next, when we think about charging infrastructure, the Department of Energy tells us about 80% of consumers do they're charging at home. And our Kelley Blue Book research has told us that 68% of consumers still want more access to charging at home and 63% want more access to charging at work. But what if you're stuck in between work at home and you need to charge? I've lived that and I spent 45 minutes waiting at Starbucks after I found a level to change charger that was free. And I remember driving off thinking, Wow, I've just gained nine miles of range. So we know that access to DC fast charging is really going to help drive battery electric adoption. So the last point I want to make is on the battery itself. We've done a lot of research on the battery and we when we think about consumers barriers to Evie, we know that 83% of consumers are skeptical about battery health. And this makes sense because when we think of the the value and the cost of a battery electric vehicle, the battery and its component parts make up about 40 to 50% of the cost of that vehicle. And I know from personal experience shopping for a ucv that it's really hard to find out what's going on with the battery when you're making that purchase decision. Is this the battery the vehicle had at birth, am I buying a vehicle with remanufactured battery? So we're working hard to present more information back to the industry on For examples like that. The other thing that consumer wonders about when it comes to the battery electric vehicle and its battery is the life. Today, there's great warranties out there to support the battery. Most vehicles have eight years, or 100 hundred thousand miles of coverage at the minimum. Yet 50% of consumers believe that battery life is less than that. So we see a big opportunity around education. And my mission is to drive confidence and transparency for our clients in the industries around the electric vehicle. And at Cox, automotive, we're well down that path. We're really good today. And inspecting, preparing and valuing vehicles. And we don't see this change at all, with the rise of the electric fleets. The final thing I'm really passionate about is the impact and the opportunity to help the industry when it comes to second life for batteries. We see there's an opportunity to help our clients in the industry make some second life decisions around recycling or reuse at the end of that battery's life. So the Eevee future is bright. And it's going to be exciting. We've learned a whole lot about how the consumers focus is changing from one where the focus was on mileage and what the odometer said, two different aspects like range, charging infrastructure, availability, cost, and battery health. And we're working hard with partners in this room to provide new tools and information back to Evie buyers and owners to help them make the most of their purchase. So look forward to driving this feature together with everyone in this room and having this discussion with the panel here.


Alison Haislip  

Thank you, Lea. All right. Now on to the panel. I'm going to let These three esteemed gentlemen up here introduce themselves. We just heard from Les. We all know who she is now. Can you guys please introduce yourselves and tell us why you are here.


Henrik Fisker  

I'm Henrik Fisker and I am the CEO and chairman of an electric car company called Fisker Inc. and we are here at CES because we are launching our new electric luxury SUV, but at a very interesting price point both to buy it, but also as a flexible lease model. So to buy it, it starts at $37,499. Before the credit techs are the federal tax incentive, which means that's 7500 you're actually able to buy it for 29,999 and you can see it in the north Hall. But we also have a very interesting lease program, flexible lease where you can give the car back anytime a month, six months, eight months, and it starts to threaten $79 a month with a 2900 $9 down. Now the reason I'm mentioning that is because it we want to take some of these issues away about battery life service. My how many miles Can I put on my vehicle to get 30,000 miles a year, which is probably the highest of any lease deal you can get will take care of all maintenance all service for these vehicles as long as you want to keep it, which kind of means as indefinite warranty on it. We come and pick up the vehicle when need service, we have an app called the fiscal rap and if it ever is something with a vehicle, you just click that and we'll come and pick up schedule a time come and pick up the vehicle. So the whole idea is to take that fear away from getting into this new technology. And I personally believe it's just a matter of time. Just like when we started out with the first phone without buttons, I think 90% of people with swearing they will never get a phone with buttons on With without buttons actually I think that was the opposite. You probably never get thinking about getting a phone, which actually has buttons on it. So I think electrification is gonna go that way.


Alison Haislip  

I hope so I had explained to a 20 year old the other day what a corded phone was. Yeah. Like they literally had no concept that a phone used to have a cord attached to it. So hopefully we're gonna feel that way go about electric cars soon. All right.


Ivo Steklac  

Good afternoon, everyone. My name is Ivo Steklac and I'm responsible for the technology and the operations for EVgo. EVgo is the nation's largest DC fast public and private EV charging company. We have over 750 charging stations across 34 different states and 66 Metropolitan service areas within the US think of those as sort of large aggregations of zip codes. Some of the things that we're most proud of in terms of Operating network as we build, own, operate and maintain that network. by owning it, operating and maintaining it, we're basically very well aligned with our customers in that we only make money if our customers are able to charge their EBS. So we're extremely well aligned with ensuring that we have the industry's highest uptime, and some of the best user experience possible. A couple of other things that we're very proud of is last year we grew our network 40% within California alone, that's specifically because more than 50% of all of the TVs in operation today are in California. And perhaps even a little bit more proud is that we were able to convert our network last year to 100% renewably generated electricity. So now every single kilowatt hour that we put into an Eevee is actually renewably generated and renewably sourced


Olivier Bellin  

So I'm Olivier, hello. I'm in charge of finance an operation at Canoo, Canoo is a startup based in Los Angeles addressing your urban mobility and with the new generation of vehicle which are made for subscription. We started in December of 17. So about two years ago, literally in a garage now we are about 400 people. And we have cows, we are building our first pre serious cows. Moving to testing now, if we will be in the sport cow business, I think we will be called Fast and Furious. But as a CFO, I prefer to say we are focused and efficient. I'm at CES because we are presenting our skateboard in partnership with a company called deso system, well known in the industry. And so I welcome you to join us at our Adair booth, which is one floor bill.


Alison Haislip  

Great. I'm actually very excited to be sitting up here with us. Have you guys because at some point over the last few months on ride news now the show that I host, we've talked about each of you up here. So I'm sort of up here with like my own personal celebrities in this world. Also watch ride news now brought to you by ride by Kelley Blue Book, check it out on YouTube. All right onto the panel that I've plugged myself. All right, Leah, I'm gonna start with you. Do you think we are actually poised to see big growth in the Evie adoption and Evie adoption over the next 24 months, please?


Lea Malloy  

Absolutely. I think this is going to be a great year for the battery electric in the sense that we have a whole bunch of new models hitting the market. We have an increased awareness about this vehicle and its capabilities. And we just saw this clip about how much the consumer enjoys being behind the wheel and the benefits of not having to service and maintain it like there used to. But certainly it's going to be a bit of a year of a litmus test right because we have Supply coming in. And we are expecting demand from the consumer marketplace. And they're going to be presented with more choices and more options with longer ranges. And as the charging infrastructure expands, all the pieces are starting to fall in place for the battery electric puzzle. Mm hmm.


Alison Haislip  

And how do you think this is gonna play out in both the personal vehicles and in fleets?


Lea Malloy  

I see adoption and personally on vehicles taking hold. It'll be slow but steady and fleets. Similar, right? I think the difference becomes in volumes, right, we think about our car park today. And there's 200 and 70 million vehicles in our car park. And only a small portion of those, about 10 million are commercial fleet vehicles. So just from a pure numbers game, the real growth we're going to see is in personally owned for the short term over time, of course, we see that mix evolving as we as the shared economy grows, and we move into more rideshare and car share and fleet management concepts.


Alison Haislip  

So Leah, I know you touched on this in your presentation at the beginning but for all of you, what do you individually think is the number one challenge for Evie adoption and growth? And what do you think is needed to overcome that challenge?


Henrik Fisker  

Well, I think has a lot to do with just general knowledge. A lot of people tell us you know where you're going to charge your car. People are not aware there is already a huge infrastructure of charging stations available, and I think it's going to grow really quickly. I think price is another one. There's a perception that the prices are very high, mainly because the successful EBS, of course that came out first, were very expensive. We're going to see some more affordable TVs and that's also been a lack of choice, quite frankly. I mean, we're showing you know, $37,000 issue v that looks like a sort of an SUV. And it hasn't really been on the market so far. In that price segment where we used to the gasoline cars, we maybe have at least 10 different options. In the same market segment for the same type of vehicle, and I think it's gonna take a couple of years until we get there to get to get to the point.


Ivo Steklac  

Yeah, I was gonna say we've we've done a fair amount of customer journey mapping. And I'll answer this by summarizing that it's probably the best way to think about it is that you're asking people to change something that is a very much a back of mind thought process to something that has to go to a front of mind for a short period of time. We've all grown up in the internal combustion engine age, right? Whether you borrowed your parents car as a teenager or you scraped enough money together to buy your first one. We all learn how to operate those we all learned where we can fill them up. We learned what kind of range and longevity and reliability they had. And we take it pretty much for granted. Now you're asking people to basically switch that paradigm and say it's still a car just like the car that you used to drive, but now it's electric and everything that We mentioned upfront goes through people's mind, one of the fascinating things that I love is that one of the questions that we get often is, can I take my battery electric vehicle into a carwash? Right? People people think that taking a car with a very large battery or a reasonably sized battery, you know, and it gets wet, it's going to cause them problems. And of course, you know, they forget about the fact that probably 60% of what is operational in your internal combustion car today is equally electric, and also survives car washes and rains and snowstorms and everything else. So it's really helping them understand that perception that this car is going to be as good or better than the car that you're driving today that you're going to be able to find the infrastructure to charge it whether it's at home, at work, or out in public.


Olivier Bellin  

I think for us, we obviously see cost as a big element. And we believe that by 2025, there will be a tipping point whereby the overall power train and and drive train will be at cost parity with the current systems. And that will be already the first moment where, you know, the the transaction cost to switch will be so minimal that the people will be very compelled to do so, then it's also about public incentive and one analytics are showing that the goal would probably come from China because they have a lot of initiative at local level at national level to actually push a change. So it's always push and pull, but we believe 2025 is gonna be the tipping point.


Alison Haislip  

I was actually thinking that when there were the clips of the people test driving the electric vehicles, I just watched Ford versus Ferrari this past weekend. People seen it. Yeah. Great movie. Christian Bale phenomenal. But if you haven't seen it, there's a quick clip with that Damon or Carol Shelby, I guess. Yeah, that's it. That's all you played. Right. Carol Shelby? Yeah. Mini drives Henry Ford the second around in their new muscle car. And it's so fast that at the end, Henry Ford starts crying. Because he's so overwhelmed by what this car can do. And I felt like we were getting sort of glimpses of that nice people not realizing that this is what these electric vehicles can do. And that's what we have to get out there to the general public understanding that these cars can do what most other cars can also do.


Henrik Fisker  

Well, I actually think the biggest impact is gonna be in the more affordable vehicles because today when you buy, let's say, a $30,000 $35,000 car, you know, the acceleration is pretty far from a faster sports car that's maybe 80,000. But if you actually buy an electric car, that's going to be 35,000. It probably has acceleration. I'm an $80,000 sports car. So I think people will be really pleasantly surprised and specifically in your daily sort of traffic situation. Tons of having to move quickly in traffic, electric cars are way better. There is no lag. There's no waiting for power. So I think that's a big positive. But I do I just on the price point, I think there's a faster way than waiting for 25 to get to the price what we want. And I think what we're going to see over the next couple of years, we already started to see it is on one hand collaboration in the car industry that we have never seen before. It is a very ego driven industry. There's nothing like standing at a cocktail party and saying, Hey, I build cars must better than he had built microchips. So therefore, I've been on both domen cars so therefore it has been just generally an industry where it's been very little collaboration. You know, everybody made their own engines. Nobody wants to share them everyone to make their own gearbox. And the interesting thing is those two fundamental things are now disappearing out of the car industry as being sort of a brand driver, you don't know anymore, or you don't care anymore who makes the engine in the electric car, because it makes no sound. There's no unique kind of characteristics other than Yeah, it's full of torque from zero. And there is no gearbox. So there's no point to think about who's going to make that. So therefore, you're now changing the whole perception to what what, you know, the consumer thinks about the vehicle, but coming to the cost. I think one thing is collaboration where you can share parts, which means you now can get volume. I think the other part is rethinking the traditional business model and that's what we're looking at. And I believe when we come out with our vehicle in endo next year, and you can go and take a look at it for $37,000 I think you'll be hard pressed to find a gasoline car offer as much as we offer with that vehicle. And And that's not just collaboration. We have done some collaboration With some groups we haven't announced yet, but the other is the business model that we have set up essentially being a digital car company, where we don't spend billions of dollars in bricks and mortar, where we don't have several middlemen between us taking a car out of a factory and delivering it to you, the consumer. Today, there's a lot of middlemen in there. There is a there is an old sort of business model where both dealers and car companies have to make a ton of money on spare parts on individual parts. That is just a tradition. And even a lot some of the new electric car companies are still following that model. Why? Well, maybe we don't have to follow that model. So if you can change the business model, I think there's a way to take a lot of cost out and actually bring electric vehicles to market by next year those equally priced to a gasoline vehicle

 

Olivier Bellin  

for us And we are showing a similar vision we we foresee as an added as much as we love cows, the cause is really becoming the outwear, which is a delivery device. It's a delivery device, which is enabling and experience. Now there is a trend of micro trends where you it's out to define the market in simple terms, right? It's mostly a myriad of different use case. So, depending which use case you go after you have to propose a different experience. AWS is about your urban mobility. But when you start to think about experience, you are shifting entirely the way you design, the way you interact with your users, not customer anymore, and also in the way you you contemplate this overall value proposition.


Alison Haislip  

Nice. All right, you need to get to the important part charging. It's a charge not going anywhere. So Evo, this is your your niche. Uh, where are we in the stages of charger? network adoption?


Ivo Steklac  

Gosh, so first of all, I'll assume that you mean public network. Yeah. adoption. Yeah. And then I'll talk specifically about DC fast charging since I think that that is the most relevant and important not to, not to say that level two isn't equally important. But to to Lee's anecdote, it's not great to get nine or 10 miles worth of range, spending 45 minutes Park, right, were much more interested in trying to come close to mimicking the experience that that we nominally understand with our internal combustion engines, which is that we get close to a complete fill up or close to the range of our vehicle in 10 to 15 minutes. So in terms of adoption, we're, we're seeing that the industry continues to grow relatively quickly. We try to be very judicious because what we are all about is Sort of doubled bottom line sustainability meaning that we have to build a sustainable business and company and we want to bring sustainable electrified transport to everyone else. So our CEO, given that we also are headquartered out of La loves to employ the Gretzky ism which is we want to skate just ahead of the puck but not too far ahead of the puck. So what that means is that we spend a fair amount of time understanding both from a top down and a bottoms up where our vehicle where our new vehicle is going to be an operation. What are the principal drivers for Evie? adoption by consumers? Ie in what geographic geographies and essays will Evie sell faster and and in more penetration, higher penetration than in other areas? And then we have a lot of internal heuristics that I helped us identify exactly what locations do consumers want us to put chargers at? That's speaking with For those consumers as well, as well as looking at patterns of where people drive and how they utilize their existing EBS, and this is really important because unlike the gasoline vehicle, the Evie is still taking a little bit longer, right, we're not at that 10 or 15 minute for a full tank equivalent. As charge rates increase, we're getting closer. But as charge rates increase, we're also seeing larger capacities of batteries. So that still means that it takes a more perceptible amount of time more so call it anywhere between 20 to 60 minutes to get to the equivalent. So that means we want to put these charging stations where you all go on a periodic basis because we want to meet you at a destination that you already frequent rather than having to give you a new destination because let's face it, our lives are complex enough. And to my prior point, we don't want you to have to think too much about where and how to get that vehicle charged. You happen to go to a grocery store like most Americans do roughly twice a week? Isn't it a nice surprise that you find a fast DC charger or several of them at the grocery store that you happen to frequent? And you can charge them while you are doing your weekly or bi weekly shopping?


Lea Malloy  

Right? If you're late at Starbucks,


Ivo Steklac  

you're really at Starbucks. You're Yeah, exactly. We're at Whole Foods, we're at similar similar locations like that. Right? The good news, similarly, so you asked about adoption, we see continued steady growth in terms of the number of customers that sign up to our network. And in fact, in 2019, pretty happy to see that the retail segment which is all of you choosing us as your network provider, was the fastest growing segment of our entire network, even over rideshare OEM and fleets. And what's what's equally important about that is that we're also seeing the volume of energy that we ie the amount that you all charge increasing proportionately as well. An example in 2018, we've ended 24 gigawatt hours over our network, and that was roughly an 88% growth over the prior year. So this is starting to grow relatively quickly. Of course, it all depends on the total number of vehicles and operation. This was a question you asked previously. And we've, we've been tracking now I think, somewhere on the order of 300 and $50 billion that have been committed by various existing OEMs. And new startups such as the gentleman on either side of me in terms of the amount of investment they're making in bringing to market electric vehicles, right. Today, we have roughly 12 models of electric vehicles available for the average American to purchase by 2021. That will roughly be almost 200 vehicles and I think that that is going to begin the wave of conversion because of course, we We all want choice, right? purchasing cars is an emotional decision, not necessarily the most rational decision, and therefore, we want to have as much choice as possible.


Lea Malloy  

And one thing I'd like to highlight and what Ivo said, though, is there's this great relationship between charging infrastructure and policy is as evil began his response, it was about the process, you went to identify profitable locations, and it's all about, let's go to locations that have concentrations of battery electrics and a lot of that those concentrations are driven by incentives and other carrots at the local state level. Right. So the more we can drive policy, big picture around national charging infrastructure will be a step ahead.


Alison Haislip  

Are you getting any inspiration from abroad as well because clearly, we're not the only country going as deep into electric as we are, there are a lot of other countries who have been adopting faster than us. So


Ivo Steklac  

I would say that probably the best inspiration we're drawing actually is a little bit from the negative side. So as an example, there are significantly more electric charging networks in Europe than there are in the United States. While that is great in terms of the availability of charging and accessibility, what has made it significantly more different, or difficult for consumers is that there are hundreds of providers and every single one of these providers has their own app, or their own token to use, and not all of them necessarily will support credit cards. And so it makes it a bit more complicated for you all as consumers to be able to leverage those. What we've learned from that is to focus first of all on a great user experience on making it really simple and easy to access, our chargers, and then on something that we call interoperability. And so while a lot of folks talk about interoperability in the industry, we have actually taken forward step in working through and actually delivering interoperability meaning that customers on our network or on the partners with whom we interoperate networks can freely roam back and forth. Think about the days of ATMs when they first came out. And you had your bank's debit or ATM card, and you weren't necessarily able to use that on in other ATMs until that sort of interact and various roaming networks came about. So we're doing this now within the space in the US to ensure that we make that free and easy for consumers to access as much charging infrastructure as they can.


Olivier Bellin  

Also, let's not forget that right now, when you decide where you where you are putting a charger, it's based on a certain mix of gut feeling and intellectual analytics, right. But over time, as your car will be full of sensors and talking back and forth with a network, we will know better and in a way more precise way where whose cows are and what else a typical traffic patterns and so you You could therefore adapt your network really based on on a kind of micro mobility standpoint. And I think that's going to be creating a solution that will help to answer some of the anxiety that exists today.


Ivo Steklac  

Yeah, that's, that's a very good point. I mean, so we try to work with as many of the OEMs as possible in looking to both leverage the data that they have about where their cars drive today be the internal combustion engine. Or even better yet, if we can access the telematics of battery electric vehicles, because at that point, we can do exactly that. We know where you are, we know what the state of charge of your car is. If you've entered a destination into your nav system, we can estimate whether you have enough charge to get to where you want to go. And basically begin to start thinking about where is charging available along that route. And should we reserve it for you because you might not get there and make that as autonomous and friction free to the customer as possible.


Olivier Bellin  

And we mentioned also the concept of platform. I think the concept of platform goes on. Along the way, not only when you are designing the car, but also when you operate the car. And therefore, you have partners connected to your platform. You can access to data in real time telling to whose partner what's happening. And and and create that kind of fluidity that humanity will create intelligence on Michael boomi dt.


Alison Haislip  

So he mentioned anxiety right before this. And I find this very interesting that both Audi and Porsche have introduced pure Evie models that have ranges of about 200 miles and then they still had to defend the engineering for that for some reason. I mean, a range of 200 miles is too low, which I find shocking because, you know, I, my car, which is not electric, sorry, but I probably get like, maybe 250 off of it before I have to fill up I drive a mini cooper so small time, but like, it seems shocking to me that a 200 mile range for an electric vehicle seems too low. What do you What do you think is the optimal range for an EV if that's what they're defending?

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