Sara Fischer  

Welcome back everyone to our final session today on the storyteller stage. Our last session we'll take a look at how technology is impacting Media and Communications and specifically the impact on the landscape of advertising and media agencies. The session will be moderated by Sarah Fischer of Axios and Florian Adamski, CEO of OMD Worldwide and Christian Juhl, global CEO of Group M. Please join me in welcoming them to the stage.

 

Good afternoon. Thank you so much for joining us today. We are so excited to be speaking with some of the leading experts in marketing, advertising and really bridging the gap between consumers and brands. Before we get started, I wanted to remind you to please join us in the conversation by tweeting hashtag ces 2020. At the end of the panel, we will reserve a few minutes for audience conversation and question. So at that time, just feel free and they'll be running mics along the sides. With that would love to do an introduction to our great panelists to my left week. Christian jewel, global CEO of group m, and two Christians left we have flow Adamski, the CEO of OMD, worldwide. Welcome. And thank you for joining us today. Thanks for having us. Whenever I do panels like this, I love to start with news of the day. And today's big keynote was Jeffrey Katzenberg and Meg Whitman from kwibi debuting their new technology. For those of you who haven't seen it. It's a video format that allows users to seamlessly watch video vertically and horizontally. But one question I had was, this format eventually will cater to advertisers and marketers. And so Christian, I'm going to start with you, a marketer is ready to take on such an advanced technology.


Christian Juhl  

And I think marketers have been dealing with different technology challenges for the last decade plus and if you look at right now one of the biggest things is we move into programmatic media or data targeting, how they adapt the creative messaging into those trends. Color data signals become a current challenge. This is just another signal. And I think while they might have to produce ads in a different way, marketers have become really adept, and especially the very successful ones, at making these types of changes. So I'm sure once audiences get used to it, and people start realizing the incredible experience they're having, their marketers will rush to try and find a way to adapt to it.


Sara Fischer  

So to get your perspective, when you hear Instagram and executives at Facebook, talk about vertical video, they'll often say that they have to do a lot of education to marketers that they have to work with them to transition to this technology, because vertical video is hard. Talk to us about that.


Florian Adamski  

It is and I mean Quibi. In general, it's let's talk about Quibi. First, I think it's a great example of an integrated bridge into what see 2020 is about and it's a lot about consumer empowerment and kwibi is a good example of how people and consumers are actually wanting to consume content these days. It's snacks, it's by its mobile, it's no longer attached to a certain device in your in your home environment. So I think this is this is a great example of how technology actually fosters what consumers really want from an advertising perspective. I I do agree it is a challenge. And there's a lot of education and I think at least in the short term, it will not be in favor of any of the procurement departments of our clients, because probably a lot of the production costs will actually go up production, shootings will have to be doubled. But as Christian pointed out, we we as an industry, the advertisers, they will have to adapt to new technology. And if that is the consumers will, we will be able to adhere over time.


Sara Fischer  

There's a lot of new technology that they're going to have to adapt to. I don't know if any of you went and saw all of the new gadgets on the floor, but so many of them are ripe for advertising, whether it's a new TV or a new video products, what technologies have you seen at CES 2020 that you think marketers are going to have to take a look at a little bit closer?


Christian Juhl  

Well, I just went actually Did the floor tour today? And you know, I think we're seeing increased trends around connectivity, I think you're going to look at, you know, if you stop thinking about TV, and you just think about screens and where you're going to experience brands, I go back to, you know, kind of the basis of our talk here is around technology and marketing, you're going to have to understand the real strong technology underpinnings of who your audiences and how you collect those things and how we, we really adapt to a world that's becoming much more sophisticated on privacy and understanding what that looks like. I think the device is probably less interesting than the audience profile you're going to start to build and the natural extension of that audience is probably the the brand experience that you're going to build based upon that, that audience understanding and where it ends up, whether it's on this screen or whether it's on the TV or whether it's on your smartphone or whether it's on a refrigerator is kind of irrelevant at some point.


Sara Fischer  

One of the things I noticed walking the floor, there's a lot of intersection between media and auto. And that's really compelling. Because for a long time, a driver couldn't watch video. Now that might be possible flow. What are you thinking about in terms of new opportunities to bring media in front of people that we just didn't have before?


Florian Adamski  

So, in general, what would I got to say about cF 2020. I feel it's at a tipping point right now where when we roam the floors, it didn't occur to me that we saw other new breakthrough technologies that would hugely disrupt what we had seen last year and even the year before. So we still talk about AI, machine learning voice, virtual assistants, facial recognition, but what has happened is a lot of the companies have now moved into a stage where a vision becomes reality where technology actually is being applied to consumers everyday lives. And to your point, automotive is probably one of the best examples probably next to the enhanced living room where a lot of those technologies merge and create this new enhanced experience. And that is, by the way, what I think agencies have actually the ability to add value to because we're not looking at the technologies themselves. We're not looking at them in silos. We don't even need to try to understand the technology in its core. What we're trying to understand is how do new technologies actually alter consumer expectations? How do they alter consumer needs? And how do we stitch all those experiences together, and to your point, the automotive experience and the new channels, the new media consumption channels that we will be experiencing, they're going to be quite radically for a lot of the publishers in the market because automotive companies will want to own that content themselves, they will want to go to market with that content themselves. So I would say in probably three to five years from now, we will see it completely new content segments coming to the market, which is already pretty cluttered as we have never seen as much proliferation of video content as it is today or Right.


Sara Fischer  

That's exactly what we know we really need is another media company. And finally, I know, this is really exciting. There's a lot of opportunities to reach consumers in a better way for marketers to be even more effective. But there's also risk. And I think, you know, I'm based in Washington, DC. Lawmakers are talking about that risk all the time in terms of privacy. We saw just a week ago, California has consumer Privacy Act passed. What are you doing to make sure that you are compliant with that? And what do you think of the trend more broadly, the fact that we have some state based laws, as opposed to a big national federal privacy law? Christian, you want to start? Sure.


Christian Juhl  

Like you mentioned it, you have GDPR, you have ccpa, you've got other states that are starting to take a look at it. I think you've got a climate right now where consumers are getting, you know, increased awareness about how their data is being used their services now where you can obviously get paid for how your data is being used. And I think Underlying all this, we have an, I'll be the first to say a person who is, you know, running one of the biggest media investment firms in the world, I don't think we've done a really good job of giving consumers the kind of experience that they should have based upon the data that we have. And that value exchange needs to get more leveled out in order for us to continue in the way we've been behaving. And I think you also need to know a greater level of consumer education as to how their data is being used and what control they have over it. I think it's an absolute mess to think that 50 states, plus all the different countries in the world are going to pass their own laws around how data is used. I think that, you know, the big technology partners in the space, you know, they need to regulate themselves at some level, and then you're seeing stuffs, you know, really strongly put forward in that and like Google and Facebook and Amazon, where they're, they're trying to come forward and do more of that. But we got to do more. I mean, I think it's, it's a place of where you're trying to chase to be compliant on a state by state basis is very difficult, man. We still don't really know what GDPR implications are ccpa I mean, you've seen I'm sure everybody Got a billion emails, if you're living in California starting January one, you got that kicking in the summer. We need a baseline for it. And I think the federal government will probably have to do something at some level from the United States. But I think companies need to take their first step forward and really look at how clear is their privacy policy? How much control Are they really giving consumers? And I think brands really need to look at when they get access to this data. Are they making? Are they making the best decisions with it? Are they really providing the value that consumers should get for giving up that valuable information?


Sara Fischer  

And quickly, just to go back to that you're a global CEO. And you mentioned it's not just our 50 states, but it's countries all over the world, what has been your privacy experience outside of us, and not just GDPR, but other forms of privacy in other places,


Christian Juhl  

except, I mean, we operate in 80 countries and you know, around the world, and we're looking at this constantly and group M has a variety of different privacy initiatives that we've gone through and we have the Coalition for Responsible advertising and you know, we try to actually build a really strong group to look at this and see what can be done on a global basis. But if in fact, then government You're going to come in and start to change the policies on top of that, and they're not going to be unified and how they think about it. You know, we're left in a very difficult position.


Sara Fischer  

Yep. So, for the past few years, if you look at trends, the total marketing pool is moving towards automation and programmatic. But now that there's so much privacy involved in, you know, legislation, is that going to hinder the growth of automation?

 

Florian Adamski  

No, I don't think it's, it'll stop the overall trend from happening. If you look at what happened right after GDPR. We actually saw the market dip for short period of time and basically what happened then and I'll also relate that back to you to your last question how agencies prepare for that. A lot of the tech vendors and and publishers they started to adapt what they had to do to legislation. And I think legislation is a good thing. I do agree with Christian that the mess we're finding now is confusing to everyone and it costs a lot of money. It's very inefficient. It's a lot of resource. It's creates a lot of things It in the advertising industry. So I would very much hope for a more consistent rollout of regulation across across the globe. But coming back to your question, I don't think that programmatic and the search for programmatic is going to stop it in any any way, shape or form. It is much more about how do we make sure to adhere to existing regulation, eu regulation. And there is there is something else that I think we don't talk about enough. I would probably call it something like data empathy. How do we actually deal with certain types of data? How can we decide how it might make me we make sure to not only do what we can do because it's technologically possible, but what we should do and there's this line of creepiness, which we all know about, that some of the experiences that consumers are having with media, they find to be very, very invasive, and we need to find better ways driven by technology driven by talent by structure, but also By ethics on how where to draw the line between what we could be doing with programmatic media with personalization, and what probably we should not be doing.


Sara Fischer  

When it comes to meeting the consumers expectations, I think transparency has been a big push by this industry is giving them access to know how their data is being used or not. I think that's easier for some mediums than others. And so for social media companies, now you can go and download everything. But if you're listening to a podcast, I don't know that everybody knows how to get their listener data. So how are you dealing with this concept of, you know, transparency across all the different mediums, whether it's podcasts, digital TV, etc? Or, you know, and and to follow up on that, you know, how are you just dealing in general with all these different mediums because I think, to the privacy perspective, they all just have different consumer expectations, different advertiser expectations, etc.


Florian Adamski  

Yeah. So I think in general, let's let's start with a question of how important is consumer privacy to to consumers. And we all have seen surveys that basically say that if a consumer has to choose whether they still get free content, as opposed to, they have to sign up for subscription 80% of consumers will actually want the free content. What is important, though, is that they understand how that data is being collected, how the data is being used and processed. And if they want to, they can actually manage it. The problem is that a lot of the consumers right now either not aware of how to manage the data, or they're not really interested in it, because the incentive seems so small. Hence, there is this notion of zero party data right now where consumer inclination and consumer acceptance and willingness of actually giving away their own data for companies to work with that is being incentivized probably that is not going to have a big pickup in the beginning. Unless there is political legislation behind that, that will further drive this. This this this notion in terms of how do we tie together different channels? I mean, this is a very classical media question like I channel channel planning. And if you look at what most of the big holding companies are doing, a lot of them are investing millions, in some cases, billions in either homegrown technology, or in big, big multi billion acquisitions, to make sure that data is not siloed, but actually flows along the entire process of insight generation, audience building, content, inspiration, and then final media activation to actually not only look at the different media channels, but much rather the consumer journey that is also how agencies these days, I think that's terrific revamp just as well as us. We are building teams no longer around channels, but consumer experiences contents and formats.


Christian Juhl  

I think there's another thing that you know, we should be prepared for just like you know, we talked about the the cookie pocalypse And these types of things as we go through it. But, you know, we're already experimenting with programs that don't use any consumer data whatsoever. And you can actually do contextual personalization of contents on pages or things like that versus actually using user ID information or any kind of API. And I think, you know, we may, in some cases have to have to deal with that. And look at that. And I think new technologies will enable us to do that actually look at basic keyword searching of if you're reading this, you might be interested in this without actually looking at the user side of things. Yep. And the more of those types of things we can stitch together that can then feed, contextual creative, you're going to feel more effective advertising experiences, you're going to lean more into the experience, and I think consumers start to feel more comfortable. So there's another option for it.


Sara Fischer  

I agree. And we're starting to already see it, The New York Times just a beauty products just like that, where they can sort of cater marketing to consumers without ever touching their own data. I want to talk to you a little bit about something that flow mentioned which was sort of measurement and attribution across channels. Right now we're in sort of a measurement crisis zone. If you will be at Nielsen that was doing TV linear metrics for so long as authority, and now that especially video viewing is becoming so omni channel, we don't have necessarily one vendor for measurement, and it's causing a lot of headaches. So I want to get both of your perspectives on, what do we do about it? And do you think in the future, we have one measurement vendor? Or is it going to be a responsibility that's carried out over a few companies?


Christian Juhl  

Well, I mean, obviously, I'm sure this chair has been well worn of people talking about walled gardens and the challenges within that. Yes, we would absolutely. I mean, as an agency, our job is to basically tell our clients where they should spend their next dollar. And if we can't measure things in an objective way, it's very hard to do that. So we've been creating proxies and all sorts of different ways to get around some of these things. But it's a challenge. And I think, you know, some of the measurement techniques you've seen in the analog world don't translate well into the digital world, and The exact mess of the measurements we've been able to do in the digital world doesn't translate the other way. And so yes, we need to come together and find a way to create a common measurement. I would hope that as an industry, we can see, that's good for everybody. And that, you know, there's, there's my talking, I started my career in the digital side of things, thinking everything's gonna go digital, everything's gonna go digital. And it's not true. I mean, that, you know, I think we're going to have to come to grips with a way to measure these things in a very common way, on a global basis. You know, I think, and then that plays into our ability to create optimization campaigns and schemes, that maybe we could ultimately live in a world that has much less advertising that's much more effective. That means a lot more between brands and peoples and creators. And I think, you know, that's, that's all predicated on us being able to understand how advertising is actually performing. And I want all of our partners to lean into that. And I personally, the reason I took this job agree with them, actually, is to use the collective weight of our organization to try and force some of those discussions so that we can get into addressability and measurability in a way that actually improves experience for consumers. So yes, at least on the group side, you will see us push very hard for some level of common common measurement. It's every conversation I'm having a CES with every one of our partners, is what are you doing to allow us to get some access?


Florian Adamski  

And actually, Sara, if I can build it, sorry to interrupt you, but if we can build on that, and that measurement is helping a lot of the different players in the industry to come together and truly sound those types of requirements for the industry, for example, group m, and Omnicom, I actually have presented to the W of a the World Federation of advertisers earlier this year, that this is exactly what we're interested in standards. When it comes to brand safety when it comes to viewability. This is important for us, because if we don't create those standards, everything, it becomes even more complex than it is already. This is very frustrating for our clients. It's frustrating for all people, and it's not healthy for anyone's business. But unfortunately and just being very specific to your question. I do not believe that in at least our lifetimes. We We will see this one universal standards. To be honest, in 2020, I believe things will actually become a little more messy and a little more difficult. We're entering streaming war part two, actually, it's a streaming explosion. And we'll see a lot of the content being behind paywalls. And the way the content is being measured will be totally cluttered, it will be very, very fragmented. And not only does that bring along the challenge of how do we measure KPIs, and by the way, which KPIs we all say business outcomes, of course everybody wants business outcomes. But then there are so many other KPIs and dimensions this letter up that letter up into KPI so it will really come down to agencies ability and capability to measure the different baby steps that lead up to a business outcome. But the other thing that's really important, and I know it's, it sounds super boring and a little quaint at these in these days. But the amount and the speed of audience and ratings attrition in 2020 is going to be unprecedented and we as an industry We need to find ways on how we can still get in front of the consumers, especially very, very important segments such as, why is the NA.


Sara Fischer  

When it comes to audience attrition, you mean turning and burning through different services and different affinities to different media? What do you mean by that?


Florian Adamski  

I mean, declining ratings first. And first and foremost, I mean, it is interesting to see that the 2020 upfront season in the US has actually brought a small I think, increase in revenues. And that is a clear indicator for how important scale and reach and penetration still is because advertisers and agencies alike willing to accept levels of inflation that only a few years ago would have been unheard of group M and Omnicom they would have put so much pressure on those publishers, if they would have come up with double digit up sometimes up to 20% inflation. Now, at least parts of the markets are willing to accept that, but at some point, we'll see so much decrease in penetration in reach probably in 20 1020, you will see certain audience segments that will experience 20% 25% decrease in, in ratings. And we'll have to find a way to find not only find and identify those segments, but how can we get into a world of content that is at free. So we'll start talking about product placement, good old product placement all the sudden again, and content generation. The problem is, that is it is not scalable. It's not scalable across the entire market. But there's only very limited space available on Netflix and others Disney plus Apple glass going forward on how to actually tell to your brands across those different audiences.


Sara Fischer  

It's going to be a challenge for sure. Maybe we'll see the billboard industry continue to rise or other other mediums I want to talk about your business from a 10,000 foot view for so long. The big global agencies were it they were the game in town. Now. You see it consultancies like Accenture, like Deloitte PwC they're starting to invest in, you know, digital marketing departments and creative. What's your take on that? How does that impact your business?


Christian Juhl  

Well, look, we're busters group and we've got three of the top five agency networks. According to Rebecca, we've got now we just crossed over $50 billion and building buildings we defended over a billion dollars this year. So I'm not particularly worried that our business is going the wrong direction right now. actually kind of welcome the competition in some ways, and that anybody who's coming in from the side of the consultancies that's going to help think about how we measure objectives as you were talking about how we think about some of the more complex issues in our industry, how they elevate us beyond buying and planning and really thinking about analytics and efficiencies and setting out brand goals and how brand and direct can actually work together. You know, I think they're going to talk about some of the harder questions. I, you know, it's a hard business that we're in and that's complex if you're going to run a big global campaigns around the world and you want to think about those. And I like our advantages is where we said as group out, yo, but more people asking tougher questions is probably a good thing.


Sara Fischer  

Yes, that's true. But okay, so flow, let's look at it from a different angle, part of another sector trying to get in on some of these efforts. You know, whether it's digital ad buying or creative means that there's been a lot of consolidation because they're looking to buy up expertise. So from that perspective, do you feel like you know, big agencies compete with them for talent to compete with them for assets, compete with them for acquisitions, like, what does that look like?


Florian Adamski  

So perhaps it's fair to say or to remind all of us in the in the agency business that we do not have any inherent right to exist, and throughout all times, none of the clients woke up one morning and decided, Hey, why don't I hire an agency to do something I could be doing myself? Or I could be giving to a different service provider. So I think we always have been having to provide proof to the benefit and the value that we bring to a business. Now I do agree there's a, there's a whole batch of new of new competitors entering our market space. They have very smart people very smart talent, even more, so they have access to top senior C suite executives on the client side, which is, which gives them a great advantage, however, and I'm not belittling anything here. However, what consultancies are currently lacking from my point of view, and that is what a lot of our clients at least also feedback is the ability to execute. So there's a lot of strategy early on a lot of really, really smart, not 10,000, actually 30,000 feet type of thinking, but then they struggle to actually implement what they've been talking about all along. And there is something that we all talk about big data and smart data and all That. I find it interesting how little understanding there was among many consultancies. And I think also a lot of the client organizations have what type of data repository very practical data. I'm not talking about first party second party data I'm talking about very beno a very basic things like spendings response rates, agencies have created over 2025 years. So we come from a foundation and we argue from a foundation that is very, very substantial, and new players coming to the marketplace, they will have to rebuild a lot of VAT at that experience and that competence that media agencies have been building for two decades.


Sara Fischer  

Let's pivot a little bit to a big topic at CES and it's going to be a bigger topic in 2020, which is the social media companies, obviously, so much of those dollars that you manage for your clients are running through platforms like Facebook platforms like Google Twitter, Those companies are facing a lot of blowback for things like political advertising policies, a hate speech, cyber bullying, harassment, you name it. Do you think that agencies need to own up to the fact that they're spending money with these platforms? How can you, you know, bridge the demand of your clients to spend in a really efficient way, but also a responsible way?


Christian Juhl  

Well, I mean, what we spend on behalf of our clients, so our clients want to be where audiences are and where audiences are being respected, and where audiences feel safe. And I think these platforms if they don't recognize that are going to see massive, you know, spend attrition. And I think they are moving aggressively into these particular areas to try and prove that they're, they're actually addressing the issues. I think that they're all doing in different ways. And I think it'll be interesting to see how that plays out. But, you know, as long as consumers continue to go and as long as consumers continue to spend time There, you know, we'll put those options in one of our clients and say, these are the risks. And that's what's going and we have clients with vastly different risk profiles who will do it and some who won't. And we've already seen some clients move and some clients stay and some clients, that's okay. And some say that's certainly not. And that's our job as an agency's to give that advice in a way that's it's unbiased in order to tell them this is what makes the most sense for you. Every single major digital partner we have is making moves towards providing better information and more options to consumers and two brands want to advertise on their platforms, there remains to be seen how far they will go, what the actual ramifications will not be long term. But it's not just social platforms. I mean, people want to connect, and I think you know, how they do that will end up writing new advertising opportunities, new creative opportunities, which is the fun of this job, really, I mean, I'm a lot of this, we're talking about kind of doom and gloom stuff, but I'm super optimistic. I, you know, I think all these new entrants to the market will add pressure to some of these folks and someone will see you know, that is an opportunity. These folks are gonna continue to take, you know, advertising dollars that are going to exchange and not own the content that's on their platforms that distance themselves from that, that social responsibility. Well, that's an opportunity for one of the new entrants to come in and say, well, we will take responsibility for that, and dollars move quickly in this business. And then quickly, both ways. So you know, that's the beauty and the danger of programmatic I suppose it's it's it's letter based,


Sara Fischer  

you sort of addressed what the next question was going to be, which is, you know, is it fair to put the onus on advertisers, you know, when Facebook gets charged with doing something that people don't like, they'll point at marketers and say, well, you're still spending ad dollars flow, is that fair?


Florian Adamski  

So I'd say it's two different things. Number one, with the help of agencies, marketers are looking for brand safe environments. That has always been been the case and we employ deploy a lot of technology. We have many, many experts in the field on how to vet context vet content, vet media platforms and publishers creative Huge white and and blacklist. So that's the technical aspects. On on the other hand, you have the aspect of if the media ecosystem today is probably I'd say 70% funded by advertising, I would say yes, there is an onus on agencies and on clients to actually be clear about the responsibility that they have. And to also follow up on on words. So right now I just see a lot of like lip service being paid to things like hate speech, rent, safety, political Miss information. I mean, I come from a country where a long time ago, political misinformation actually lead to very, very drastic consequences. So I personally feel very strongly about that. Media publishers and by the way, we always talk about Google and Facebook, the two big ones, but if we look further down the long tail there are a lot of other companies, a lot of other publishers That should be taking over responsibility for the content that they publish that they put on display. Because I mean, it's it, I find it almost ridiculous that if anyone would have asked the question, should a publisher vet the content that they broadcast? If someone would have asked that question, say five years ago, people would have laughed it off. Of course, they would have to. And now we've entered this new age where all of a sudden it becomes on Vogue and trendy to just let go, because it's part of a new diversification strategy. I think it is not. And I think allowing for very, very deliberate misinformation is creating more freedom of speech or more freedom of diversity of opinion. It's doing the opposite.


Sara Fischer  

This concept has totally taken over our political discourse ever recently. This is the free speech election. It's all we're talking about. How are the brands that you're working with dealing with this sort of like hyper political environment where everything politicize including free speech, which is a foundation of what they do day in and day out.


Christian Juhl  

I mean, again, we have different clients approaching it in many, many different ways. And I think the first thing is to go back and look at what are your brand safety standards? What are you willing to do understand your needs as a brand and where you're coming into the conversation? And then looking at where you want to actually express yourself? And I think, you know that that is a variety of different answers in different countries around the world, depending on which platforms you're on and and how you want to tell your story. And there's no simple answer to it. But I think brands are increasingly aware of how they're showing up. They're taking responsibility for it, and they're demanding channel fluidity as things move, and they want constant monitoring as things developed around the world. And, you know, we have to provide bill provide that for them.


Sara Fischer  

So if one of your companies that you represent gets thrown into the political crosshairs, you know, and official tweets about them, it's a very different type of rapid response then now than it used to be maybe even 10 years ago. So how do you address that


Florian Adamski  

it creates a lot of anxiety. It creates a lot of anxiety on behalf of the of the clients of the agencies, because in an already truly fragmented and hyper fragmented marketplace, all the sudden because of a very bipartisan or actually very partisan overall behavior and climate, the choices that we have to put the right messaging in front of the right consumer at the right time, actually become limited, because certain environments, certain contexts, certain platforms, all of a sudden are being deemed as either appropriate or being inappropriate. I would very much hope for a different political climate, especially over here in the US, but also in other parts of the world because it does actually limit the opportunities that our advertisers have And to your point, we see a lot, a lot of fear of siding, siding with the wrong side, saying the wrong things. I think if you look at examples like Nike, who were very, very clear on what they wanted to say, I would say probably 85% of all advertisers, at least that we represent, they look at that. And they find it very brave. They find it very attractive, because they're being clear about what they want to achieve and about the objective and they're having a straight back about it, but of the 85% 99% would never do the same thing. Because as you said, it would actually bring them into the crosshairs and probably create a lot of political internal heat. And eventually that might very much impact business outcomes as well.


Sara Fischer  

It's a very complicated problem, I think, coming from a publisher. I mean, it's something that brands are facing publishers are facing, nobody really knows how to get it right. We have just a few minutes left here in the panel. And so I want to open it up to audience questions. If you don't have any, we can fill out some time but if you do have any, I wanted to give you the opportunity. So does anyone have any audience questions?


Florian Adamski  

Thanks. 


Unknown Speaker  

still okay. I believe Google is the largest advertising business in the world. And in the last session, they indicated that actually they generated


Christian Juhl  

their advertising revenue from relatively little data, noting, in particular, the the intent signals they got from search. Do you see any important trends in the next couple years that could affect either of those things? Google's relative size, such as from, you know, competition in search from Amazon or other types of platforms, or its ability to generate a lot of revenue from relatively little data? Thanks. Yeah, we're lucky we actually share Google as a client. And I think I wasn't here for the last session, but like one of the guys was my boss. So I think the rest It's quite the just probably making is that Google's take an approach for their own marketing to use small data sets that are actually publicly available, and then use machine learning and AI to amplify those to create inferences, and then actually do testing to see which actual campaigns are performing better against that in live examples. And I think what's actually interesting with that is Google arguably has the largest data set in the world. But believe it or not, they actually use a very small amount of it, because out of out of a very abundance caution towards the privacy, I believe. So I think what's interesting about that is actually it tells you, you don't have to have massive data sets. In order to be successful at this, you really have to have an understanding of what patterns look like, and how to deploy machine learning and AI into a sense that you can start to scale these learnings and then have a very strong test and learn methodology out when you actually launch campaign so that you can understand what's effective and optimize aggressively against that. And that's why we're pushing so much harder into addressability in the marketplace is because the whole thing around understanding what's working means you can actually shift it. And if I'm stuck in linear and I'm stuck in schedules, it's really hard to To do that, at the speed of which I want to do it, the Google's and marketers done a really good job of being able to do that they're trying to lead the way and demonstrate, you know, to their clients and others to how that can actually be done. But I wasn't here. That's my guess is what they were talking about.


Sara Fischer  

Any other audience questions? I see a hand over there, we can run the mic. Thank you.


Unknown Speaker  

Christian, you had mentioned that you'd like to see a standard come forward with gathering data and analytics for the different services we have going forward? Isn't there kind of a disincentive for the companies to share that data since a lot of their value is built in collecting it and then they get sold for really high valuations partially because of that data?


Christian Juhl  

Well, it's certainly a disincentive. until there's an alternative. I mean, I don't mean to coy about it, but you know, I think what I was talking about is fragmentation. And you see other people start to command and provide this and as dollar shift, then they're going to get incentive to actually share. It's also Only an incentive if they have some sort of, I feel like if they would actually open it up and provide sunlight to it, that you could then actually understand how things are going. And those that are actually performing and providing value, we can invest more in those platforms, which would probably outweigh some of the exponential investments or the exponential valuations they're getting in their data sets. I always have this odd feeling in my stomach when I go to someone and say, Well, let me mark my own homework or, you know, we'll tell you what the result is. That doesn't feel very good as someone who's spending money across a multitude of places. And I'd much rather work with partners who will allow me to come in and use some third party. I mean, we got a variety of ways to do it. It doesn't have to be my data or my measurement systems. But I would be more concerned if I was in the data brokerage business right now. Or if I was making big acquisitions into proprietary data sets, I think we will see, you know, more sunlight coming into data sets and more ability to measure these things. I think we have to it's an inevitability and it wouldn't surprise me if it was tied up. And some of these new privacy laws and things that come out is that you're going to have to create What level of data you're collecting, you're going to have to allow some level of transparency into it, which will change those businesses fundamentally going forward.


Florian Adamski  

I think, if I can, if I can build on that. The question really is, is there more value in creating silo data sets that might or might not be valuable in a potential acquisition going going forward? Or is there more value in becoming part of an ecosystem that unlocks a lot of the avenues and the roads that are currently holding advertisers and agencies back to actually invest into certain channels? I think the letter has a lot more potential, whereas the first web st a former feels very protective, and it's a high bet against a very, very high stake.


Sara Fischer  

We have just about a minute. So I want to pose a final question to you, which is that we are facing a very different America today a very different world today than we did even you know, a decade ago, it's becoming far more multicultural. And one of the Things that the media and marketing agents, you know, industries have been faulted for is not embracing that kind of diversity. What are both of you doing to address that?


Christian Juhl  

I mean, we're doing everything we possibly can as a group and web p as a whole. I mean, like you said, we have to look more like the world we're marketing to. We have tremendous amount of diversity and inclusion initiatives, training programs, recruiting from different sources, looking at the shape of our workforce promoting, I mean, everything that you can imagine at a workforce of 130,000 people. But we recognize it's really important to us and not just to us, but to our clients, to our consumers. And it you know, it's the number one initiative at the board. It's the number one initiative for my ex co team. And a lot of it comes from how do we develop talent from different places? How do we promote talent from different places? How do we look at the review process to make sure that it's, you know, adapting to what our current workforce looks like? And then, you know, on the retention side, how do we really make sure that provides flexible work environments? No, I went to, Mark asked me to take the job. As the group MC over that job has been in New York for the last 40 years. I've got a son in San Francisco, and I'm not moving him. And he said, Great work from San Francisco, we'd love to have more executives over there. It's a small example. I by no means hold myself up as a diversity poster boy, but I think we have to find a work environment that allows people to work in the way they need to work. And I think once we start doing that you can be more inclusive, and you can start to look from people from different sources than you're used to be able to look. And we end up in a better place. Yeah,


Florian Adamski  

I just wanted to relate that question back to your earlier one about new entrants in the in the marketplace like Accenture, big equity, other other consultancies? And you did mention the the war for talent and how talent has I would say in the past three to four years has become ever more important always has been at the backbone of the backbone of our organizations in the past but These days, talent is invaluable. And all of those initiatives that Christian talked about with regards to group m with regards to WP p i think we mirror on the Omnicom side as well. And I personally feel that whereas a lot of lip service has has been paid to that in the past probably 10 to 15 years. A lot of those measures and and initiatives are actually hitting the roads. And if you look at some of the latest leadership changes, yes, you do have two white men sitting next to you. However, if you look at across the industry, who actually has been promoted into board positions into C suites, you can see and sense there is a new, I think, belief and requirement to actually change things and no longer simply put a couple of like numbers and stats for it, but then don't deliver on the inside.


Sara Fischer  

Oh, I hope that's a trend that continues into 2020 because as You mentioned it's a major priority for your company, as is for years flow. And I think it is for everyone here. I hope it is at CES. before we let you go, I wanted to just do a recap of everything that we learned today. First of all, I love talking a little bit more about what we were discussing at kwibi. There's always a new technology, there's always a new signal marketers have always navigated it. agencies have more room to add value in opportunities where there's more technology, especially here at CES flow. I love what you said about auto being the new content segment. That should be a challenge, but one that will welcome as publishers zero party data also another very interesting concept that I had not learned until today, this concept of consumers just sort of accepting their data to be collected. Christian, I think what you were saying that we don't need massive data sets to be successful, we can actually figure out how to really Target consumers well, by leveraging machine learning and data and other kinds of practices, the speed of audience attrition in 2020 will be a challenge for a lot of publishers, but especially those in the analog world and TV, etc. I'm looking forward to seeing how things like product placement, as you mentioned, increase when those types of things happen. As far as a political environment, I think they were that you said anxiety reflects a lot of people and a lot of consumers it's a challenge for everybody. But obviously, particularly, marketers flow. I love the stat that 85% of the advertisers that you work with, think that what Nike did was brave in taking a stand on an issue, but 99% of them probably say they wouldn't do it themselves. I think that sort of speaks to the tension and anxiety around the political environment. Lastly, Christian, these laws around privacy, potentially ushering in a new era sunlight around transparency gives me a lot of hope for the future. The war for talent. We have a lot of people here at CES who are very talented and want to get into the agency business. So maybe we'll meet them at some cocktail parties later. I want to thank everyone for joining us today, especially this consumer Technology Association and all the folks working at the venue today to make this possible. We thank you so much. And thank you for joining us have a good CES.


Florian Adamski  

Thanks. Thank you.


Sara Fischer  

Thank you so much to our panelists. It's been an amazing day of content on this stage. Coming up, it'll be happy hour starting at four o'clock it'll be the visionary and vino presentation, featuring the team from a mobi they will be discussing the power and influence of the television industry, measurement fragmentation and now new demographically verified solutions may help to redefine the planning and buying process. Stick around and we'll start at four o'clock.

 

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